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Fuel and oil additives
- Thread starter headrc
- Start date
I certainly don't intend to turn this into a lubricity is or is not, is needed or is not... debate. But since I tend to be long winded I may have "muddied" my points.
Bio diesel adds lubricity but also adds food for fungus and bacteria(which ends up looking like algae) - especially when water is present. Not saying that diesel with no bio fuel will not grow stuff... it can.
The lubricity standard used for fuel oils, which includes diesel, it know as the HFRR test(High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) - where a ball bearing is rubbed against a steel plate for a set amount of time under a set amount of pressure submerged in the oil being tested. The scars on the steel plate are then measured (width if I remember correctly). All of this - the machine(rig) ball and plate are made for this test.
Now imagine having a fuel pump that can compress fuel to the pressures required in a common rail injection system - then an injector tip that has to stop that pressure. Lubrication IS important.
If you don't think so - run motor oil in your pickup differential and see what happens. The additives in the different brands of gear oils can be the difference between longevity and quick failure. Many of the additives in these oils are minerals (like sulfur is a mineral) I think calcium and magnesium are some of the ones used. The oil companies try to keep these proprietary for obvious reasons.
The pump guy I am sure, can tell us the pressures in an old school pencil injector fuel system compared to a High Pressure Common Rail or even a Hydraulic Electric Unit Injector(HEUI) like in a Power Stroke or my Cat 3126.
Water will get into any fuel tank - the more air that is in the tank for a period of time the worse it is - when you see dew on the ground, there is a chance that condensation took place inside your tank - many factors come into play - but if the air in the tank reaches it's dewpoint you will have water. Diesel can hold a certain amount of moisture without being seen, but it is very small amount. Keep your tanks sealed, except when sucking fuel out or putting fuel in to reduce the amount of air traveling in and out of your tanks - the standard fuel tank cap (for transfer tanks) at Tractor Supply is a Pressure Vacuum valve if used correctly.
I have solved many fuel issues with this knowledge, hope it helps.
Bottom line, fuel additives can help and do help most fuel systems. It is very hard to have the info needed to know how much, because doing a valid study on a piece of equipment is near impossible.
Bio diesel adds lubricity but also adds food for fungus and bacteria(which ends up looking like algae) - especially when water is present. Not saying that diesel with no bio fuel will not grow stuff... it can.
The lubricity standard used for fuel oils, which includes diesel, it know as the HFRR test(High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) - where a ball bearing is rubbed against a steel plate for a set amount of time under a set amount of pressure submerged in the oil being tested. The scars on the steel plate are then measured (width if I remember correctly). All of this - the machine(rig) ball and plate are made for this test.
Now imagine having a fuel pump that can compress fuel to the pressures required in a common rail injection system - then an injector tip that has to stop that pressure. Lubrication IS important.
If you don't think so - run motor oil in your pickup differential and see what happens. The additives in the different brands of gear oils can be the difference between longevity and quick failure. Many of the additives in these oils are minerals (like sulfur is a mineral) I think calcium and magnesium are some of the ones used. The oil companies try to keep these proprietary for obvious reasons.
The pump guy I am sure, can tell us the pressures in an old school pencil injector fuel system compared to a High Pressure Common Rail or even a Hydraulic Electric Unit Injector(HEUI) like in a Power Stroke or my Cat 3126.
Water will get into any fuel tank - the more air that is in the tank for a period of time the worse it is - when you see dew on the ground, there is a chance that condensation took place inside your tank - many factors come into play - but if the air in the tank reaches it's dewpoint you will have water. Diesel can hold a certain amount of moisture without being seen, but it is very small amount. Keep your tanks sealed, except when sucking fuel out or putting fuel in to reduce the amount of air traveling in and out of your tanks - the standard fuel tank cap (for transfer tanks) at Tractor Supply is a Pressure Vacuum valve if used correctly.
I have solved many fuel issues with this knowledge, hope it helps.
Bottom line, fuel additives can help and do help most fuel systems. It is very hard to have the info needed to know how much, because doing a valid study on a piece of equipment is near impossible.
tuney443
Senior Member
I run Schaeffer Diesel Treat in EVERYTHING diesel,have been for years. In the well documented diesel additive study on the Diesel Place, Schaeffer was in the top 5 of all the treatments entered. GREAT stuff that has never let me down,308K miles on my LBZ Duramax now with the original and still going strong injectors.
I to use Diesel Place. You may be referring to the 40 to 50 page thread that I was active in a few years ago. I thought I would get a new lubricity study done by organizing and doing a little research. I found that the HFRR test was too expensive and the work was more than I wanted to tackle. I have not looked at the thread in a while, but I am sure it is still going. I think that there are other places on the web where the study done was in question because of the way the sample were sent in from the manufacturers in some cases.
I use the Id draymorris on other sites. My post on my injector saga "with a surprising outcome" gives some of the experiences that I base by opinions on regarding injectors, fuel and fuel additives.
You getting that many miles on injectors is great. I know of many people that can say they too have that longevity in their old Duramaxes. I drive a 04 Chevy 3500 and have no intentions of getting anything different.
Since this site is about equipment, I would like to say that I believe that there are some difference in our views and opinions regarding fuel in equipment and fuel in our pickups:
I think that because most equipment is owned by someone who makes money with the equipment, and many times is not the person running the equipment, and...does not keep documentation keeping up with the costs of operating each machine because they are too busy doing other things --- most would not even consider treating the large amounts of fuel they use.
Also, most don't know that concentrated less costly treatments may be available for large quantities.
Also, many, if not most fuel sales people, play-off treating fuel - " why would you want to treat something that does not need it" is what most salesmen would say. But a large distributor hear in N TX has teamed up Power Services and delivers treated fuel and include a tank maintenance program if you buy that fuel.
If I remember correctly, the concentrated PS Diesel Kleen cost me about .01 cent per gallon. I have to buy it at a fuel distributor.
No one can easily determine efficiency in heavy machinery.
I could go on and on, but I need to go for now.
I use the Id draymorris on other sites. My post on my injector saga "with a surprising outcome" gives some of the experiences that I base by opinions on regarding injectors, fuel and fuel additives.
You getting that many miles on injectors is great. I know of many people that can say they too have that longevity in their old Duramaxes. I drive a 04 Chevy 3500 and have no intentions of getting anything different.
Since this site is about equipment, I would like to say that I believe that there are some difference in our views and opinions regarding fuel in equipment and fuel in our pickups:
I think that because most equipment is owned by someone who makes money with the equipment, and many times is not the person running the equipment, and...does not keep documentation keeping up with the costs of operating each machine because they are too busy doing other things --- most would not even consider treating the large amounts of fuel they use.
Also, most don't know that concentrated less costly treatments may be available for large quantities.
Also, many, if not most fuel sales people, play-off treating fuel - " why would you want to treat something that does not need it" is what most salesmen would say. But a large distributor hear in N TX has teamed up Power Services and delivers treated fuel and include a tank maintenance program if you buy that fuel.
If I remember correctly, the concentrated PS Diesel Kleen cost me about .01 cent per gallon. I have to buy it at a fuel distributor.
No one can easily determine efficiency in heavy machinery.
I could go on and on, but I need to go for now.
DMiller
Senior Member
Have to watch fuel additive additions, if adding at half/third of tank remaining can easily over dosage the fuel and end up with material precipitation. Have been dealing with a 3406E that fouled a pair of fuel filters RAPIDLY, found out the owner was doping the fuel rather excessively with Schaeffer's and it got out of hand. I was thinking bio slipped in or a batch of old fuel that had already algae bloomed but in the net result have come to the conclusion he just OD'd on additive. I was running tanks down to 1/4 or less then adding SLIGHTLY LESS THAN recommended for the load being added as there was already additive in that tank. He was adding 10-20% MORE than recommended for fuel being added thinking was doing a good thing. I would get in the truck after he had been using and loaded it up additive wise.
Fuel right now sucks, the EPA has removed Most of the Sulphur along with the BTU value then the distillers had to reformulate to get a desired lubricity once failures started showing out. Sulphur besides a BTU content was also a suspended lubricant in the fuel, EPA idiots just cannot look beyond their own noses and 'Estimations' according to what I see as a junk science.
Fuel right now sucks, the EPA has removed Most of the Sulphur along with the BTU value then the distillers had to reformulate to get a desired lubricity once failures started showing out. Sulphur besides a BTU content was also a suspended lubricant in the fuel, EPA idiots just cannot look beyond their own noses and 'Estimations' according to what I see as a junk science.