I started working on my old scraper yesterday...It's a 1979 Fiatallis 161, 16 yard machine....I bought it with a low hydraulic pressure problem....I started by removing the fluid from the 50 gallon reservoir....at the bottom of the tank in the strainer for the suction port, I found what looks like some sort of a hydraulic bypass assembly or pressure relief setup in 3 pieces, laying in the steel strainer....I removed all the access panels for the tank and got in there with a flashlight and looked over the entire inside of the tank....I can't for the life of me, pinpoint where these parts came from...I had a tank schematic faxed to me from a Fiatallis dealer and I don't see these parts on there either....Is it possible that these parts were carried into the tank from one of the hydraulic return lines? The guy that sold me the tractor says that it developed a pressure problem so he removed the pump and had it rebuilt then replaced it and the problem remained the same....hmmm....maybe these loose parts is the problem? I was quoted around 1200.00 to have this pump built....it's a vickers 2520 series, tandem vane pump (two pumps in one)....this sucker was a PIA to remove....I'd hate to put it back in without rebuilding it, but at the same time I'd hate to rebuild it for no reason....any advice from the hydraulic experts? I don't have a service manual but I ordered a complete set today....should be here in 2 or 3 days....here's some pics of the pump, the 3 pieces I found in the hydraulic tank and the tractor....
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Found some parts in my hydraulic reservoir
- Thread starter Serv
- Start date
some more info....I tested the output of the pump and got 1500psi under full load...also, I held the bowl control lever to the "lower the bowl" position and even after the cylinders stopped, the engine of the scraper didn't really lug down like one would expect....Like it didn't really phase the machine that I was forcing it.... this pump runs the elevator setup as well as the 2 cylinders that raise and lower the bowl of the scraper....once I scooped about 6 or 7 yards into the bowl, there was not enough power to lift the bowl anymore....According to the service manual, I'm looking for around 2400 psi....
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9420pullpan
Senior Member
without knowing where those parts came from it is hard to say how they got there ya know.
but you could try to adjust the relief valve to try and build pressure. turn it a couple of turns to see if there is a change in pressure..
but you could try to adjust the relief valve to try and build pressure. turn it a couple of turns to see if there is a change in pressure..
RonG
Charter Member
Inspect the filler cap for some kind of provision to relieve the pressure in the tank before you can unscrew the cap.It might be in the nipple or on a bracket close to the threads that the cap screws onto,my mind is fading fast but I have seen something that could use those parts before and it was part of a lock that prevented you from turning the fill cap until you depressed the stem on the thingamajig which relieved the pressure in the tank to protect us from our dumb selves.This may be a long shot but that is what comes to mind when I saw the pieces you are showing me.Ron G
Serv, I would study the shop manual and parts book to see how the oil gets out of the tank to the pump and how it is returned from the actuators Most systems have a suction strainer and a return filter. When you understand this it should be easier to determine where the part could have come from and how it came to be in the tank.
My guess would be that its a plunger or cushioning device out of a hydraulic cylinder but the illustrated parts book should help understand their internal construction
Ron has a good theory because the part looks undamaged as though it just fell apart from a component already inside the tank (maybe part of the cooling system or filter bypass).
BTW... if you do crank up the main relief valve and nothing happens, crank it back the same amount or you could end up blowing up the pump when you finally find the cause of low pressure
My guess would be that its a plunger or cushioning device out of a hydraulic cylinder but the illustrated parts book should help understand their internal construction
Ron has a good theory because the part looks undamaged as though it just fell apart from a component already inside the tank (maybe part of the cooling system or filter bypass).
BTW... if you do crank up the main relief valve and nothing happens, crank it back the same amount or you could end up blowing up the pump when you finally find the cause of low pressure
Thanks guys!
RonG nailed it...:notworthy I still haven't received my manuals yet, but I aquired a more detailed tank schematic thank the first one I obtained and they show these parts as part of the filler cap assembly....The first schematic I got looked like someone drew it by hand and didn't show this....I'm about to take my pump to have it rebuilt and hopefully will be scraping next week some time....I already started my dozer work but need to move some dirt asap....
Wulf,
I plan to study the manuals from cover to cover....I read a feww hydraulic pages that a Fiatallis dealer faxed me....Now I wish we would have checked everything else besides the pump before removing it....But it was such a pain to remove that I'm going to have the pump looked at before replacing it....manuals should be here today or Monday so I should be better armed then....thanks again...:yup
:Cowboy
RonG nailed it...:notworthy I still haven't received my manuals yet, but I aquired a more detailed tank schematic thank the first one I obtained and they show these parts as part of the filler cap assembly....The first schematic I got looked like someone drew it by hand and didn't show this....I'm about to take my pump to have it rebuilt and hopefully will be scraping next week some time....I already started my dozer work but need to move some dirt asap....
Wulf,
I plan to study the manuals from cover to cover....I read a feww hydraulic pages that a Fiatallis dealer faxed me....Now I wish we would have checked everything else besides the pump before removing it....But it was such a pain to remove that I'm going to have the pump looked at before replacing it....manuals should be here today or Monday so I should be better armed then....thanks again...:yup
:Cowboy
wrenchbender
Senior Member
Hey Serv if ya don't mind me asking how long you had this old 161? Looks kinda like one I changed out the pump on and rebuilt the control valve on.Guy sent it straight to the sale from my shop maybe the same animal? I know this an old thread and I may not get a reply.
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I've had this one for only a couple or few months. A friend of mine bought it around 1997ish and ran it in his caliche pit business until he shut down. He bought it used from Anderson Machinery in Corpus Christi Texas and said he paid around 60k for it. It's around a 1979 model machine. He sold it to another friend of mine that ran it out of hydraulic oil and ruined the pump that runs the bowl lift and elevator functions. The machine basically sat around since then. For some reason, they installed a smaller GPM vane pump in place of the gear pump it comes with. I bought the machine for 4500.00 and rebuilt the incorrect pump anyway and now it lifts and loads like it's supposed to, but probably slower than the pump it's supposed to have.
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wrenchbender
Senior Member
Glad to hear you got it working :thumbsup and even more glad to hear it's not the one that was here. As someone had put metal shavings in the hydraulics and ruined the pump and elevator motor.The guy that owned it put two motors and three pumps before calling me.I cleaned all hyd. lines and tank added an in line filter on the pickup side. And still when changing the low pressure inline filter there was metal in it.:Banghead After this he ran it about 8 or so years and replaced a couple of more pumps.And after the last one I installed he sent the old gal to the sale.