Ford 4500

[FORD 4500]

Thank you Phil for the quick response and help. I took a few photos and will attempt to paste them in here.

The engine ran great last summer but sat idle all fall and winter.

The fuel pump would appear to be rotary to my untrained eye. I drained some fuel from the stopcock at the bottom of the fuel filter to check for water, debris or gelled fuel. The fuel ran clear. I then cracked the lines at the engine head and got no fuel from any of the three cylinders when I cranked the engine. Next I cracked the ports on the front end of the fuel pump both top and side. Fuel flowed easily. The pump is not moving any fuel to the engine; not a drop.

I cannot seem to figure out how to add a photo (3). If it would be of help, you might be able to give me instructions on how to add photos.

Thanks for the help.

Tim

 

[FORD 4500]

This is an attempt to post one photo.

 

[willie59]

Welcome to the forum Ford 4500. :usa

You have your 3 probationary posts in, you'll now have access to the forums features. Here's a link to posting pics.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachments

 

[Phil]

Ford 4500,
See if you can get fuel coming out of the bleed screw out on your injection pump(see pic 5), as part of the bleeding process.

Make sure your manual shut -off lever is in the forward position, usually the cable pulls it to the rear to shut fuel off.

Failing to get fuel from the injector lines, I would be tempted to pull the pump cover off, carefully, and check the fuel metering valve for free movement. Note that the cover should be cleaned beforehand, think clean when you are doing this. Be careful of the cover gasket and note the location of the spring before you unhook/rehook it. Also when reassembling the cover, the fuel shut-off lever has to engage a 'hook'(pic 4). Take your time.

You will be working in diesel fuel unless you drain the pump housing. There maybe a cover on the side of the pump, so you can drain some fuel off, or you may choose to check the valve, under 'water'.

The valve must rotate freely with the slightest touch.

I've included a picture of a old CAV pump with no housing so you can see the valve. The complete pump in the first picture is a newer CAV pump with solenoid shut-off. I won't add any notes to the pictures, I think it's self explanatory. Phil

 

[Phil]

Last pic. Move the governor control arm(13) back and forth and the metering valve should move also. Phil

 

[FORD 4500]

Thank you for all of that information Phil. I will study it tonight and get on it tomorrow. Can I work on it on the tractor or should I remove it first? Thank you again.

Here are photos of my unit:

 

[willie59]

I could be totally wrong here...but it looks like the fuel shut down is pulled back.

 

[dozerdave]

Looks the same to me.

 

[FORD 4500]

You both are correct. I had been guessing that the problem was something simple like a clogged port rather than a broken shaft or worse. I had been bleeding fuel from the upper port and working the shutoff linkage back and forth to perhaps dislodge any gunk that may be clogging the works. I left it overnight in the closed position and took the photos today. Before getting this great help from Phil this morning, my next plan was going to force fuel under pressure into the pump to dislodge any bad fuel or gunk. Or, forcing in some solvents and/or Deisel 911 to disolve any blockage. Never having been inside one, I was a little reluctant to damage any delicate floats or valves. I am not working with any manuals or drawings here. I spent last evening searching for some answers or help on the internet and found you guys. It was like dry land to a drowning man.

I am trying to decide if I can take off the cover with the pump still installed and keep it clean enough or remove it for bench work. I have a job lined up for the machine that I will lose this week. Without a truck/trailer the extra income comes from neighbors, and that puts the pressure on for me to produce or be the last guy to call.

You guys have been great. Many, many thanks to Phil for taking the time to guide me through this step by step providing photos, drawings and instruction.

Tim

 

[willie59]

Ok then, if you've been trying to get fuel with the shutoff in the "run" position to no avail, I think Phil has given you some good illustrations to work with. I would attempt the repairs with the unit installed as opposed to removing it. Remove all the heavy debris that you can with a scaper and compressed air. Then soak the whole thing down with starting fluid and blow of with air. This will clean everthing that would contaminate the system. Good luck and keep in touch. Phil seems to have some good stuff on this.

 

[FORD 4500]

Thank you ATCOEQUIP. I will do as you say; very clean. Have been working under a tarp for a couple of weeks now due to the rain here. More coming all week. Nice to know that I have guys like you. I start at 5am. Gotta go. Thanks again.

Tim

 

[FORD 4500]

Thank you ATCOEQIP,

I will keep it clean as you say. Working under a tarp the past few weeks due to the rain continues for the next week as well.

Many thanks to you for the advice. I start at 5 am, rain is now my friend.

Thanks again.

Tim

 

[Ford420]

Nice looking Ford. Got a 420 myself, dig well for a smaller machine...

 

[rpm]

Can anyone tell me where to find the HP rating of Ford 4500 Diesel 1970? Industrial tractor. I have seen it listed in several publications from 52-67 HP. Seems like there should only be 1 answer, but I cannot find it. Also, same question for a Cat 830 MB. Thank you.

 

[64eman]

The 4500 i have is a great machine. Bought it used. Did a litttle work on it, new clutch, front and rear trans brg, lubes, filters, ect. The last major problem has me stumped. When i got the machine the dig bucket was slow to curl out. In was no problem. Plenty of pull in power. My son actually ripped the bucket popping out a stump. Now the bucket will not curl out at all. The boom in and out ok. Slow to swing left, fast moving right. There are some adjustment screws on the valve body (impossible to get at) but none seem to help. All the rest of the hyds work ok. any suggestions.:beatsme

 

[pinesd3400]

Looks like you got a broken swing chain bolt, and the only way to fix that is to disconnect both hydraulic swing hoses (while the boom is up) so you may swing the
boom by hand, to replace the (hardened) bolt. Keep chains oiled they are very
expensive and the left & right is different. Buy a one wire alternator and be done with
it. Some have two fuel filters and some have one. Fill them with fuel and the bleeder is
a 1/2" hex on the pump. I advise to do the filters after the engine has warmed up. We
always have, had Big Fords and when run out of fuel the tend to be extremly hard to
restart. Also Note; that if you have a "flipper" on the mechanical lift pump, you must
turn over the engine until the pump is relaxed on the camshaft or it will do nothing when
you try to pump it > to bleed the system. On the power steering there is a filter in the
pump that looks like a regular Ford truck, or maybe the pumps getting a little weak.

 

[Phil]

On the topic of the swing chain, I was able to order a chain repair kit from a bearing supply company once, for my 4500. It matched up to the type of chain used commonly for forklifts. I'm sure longer lengths could have been ordered.

Your hydraulic problem may be a failed circuit(secondary) valve in that circuit. Foreign pieces in the oil will also lodge under valves and cause problems. I also had a 550 once, that had a slow to curl bucket problem that was intermittent. Although I did not work on the machine I was told by the previous owner that it a mechanic found a piece of nylon, from packing, in a valve in that circuit. We need you ATCOEQUIP. Phil

 

[64eman]

Sounds like i need to remove the valve body, take apart and clean. Any do,s or dont,s, tricks, ect. I have had the backhoe off the tractor before to replace hoses so thats no problem. Don,t know about the valves though. Any suggestions what to look for besides trash.

On the swing chain: We also had both sides ot our swing chain break at the same time. I blamed the small crossover hose that ties the left and right cyls.together since it was busted. We were lucky that the links were repairable. A litte heat from our torch some grade eight bolts (to make new pins) and we were back in business.

 

[willie59]

Your hydraulic problem may be a failed circuit(secondary) valve in that circuit. Foreign pieces in the oil will also lodge under valves and cause problems. I also had a 550 once, that had a slow to curl bucket problem that was intermittent. Although I did not work on the machine I was told by the previous owner that it a mechanic found a piece of nylon, from packing, in a valve in that circuit. We need you ATCOEQUIP. Phil

I think you've nailed it Phil.

When i got the machine the dig bucket was slow to curl out. In was no problem. Plenty of pull in power. My son actually ripped the bucket popping out a stump. Now the bucket will not curl out at all. The boom in and out ok. Slow to swing left, fast moving right. There are some adjustment screws on the valve body (impossible to get at) but none seem to help. All the rest of the hyds work ok. any suggestions.:beatsme

When you describe "adjustment screws" on the valve body, "screws" being plural (meaning more than one), it sounds like the valve body has circuit relief valves on it. That's where I'd be looking. If the bucket has power to pull a stump, then it's doubtful there's a problem with the cylinder packing. It could be something as simple as a failed o-ring on a circuit relief valve. I'd be plucking them out. I'd even switch some of the reliefs and see if the problem now moves to a different function, thereby determining you have a failed relief valve.


As for the swing chain broken; if it was broken where it attaches to one swing cylinder, wouldn't it swing one way then not come back at all?

 

[64eman]

I will start plucking and checking the o-rings. Many thanks for pointing me in a starting direction. I believe what i am looking at may be relief valves. A little hard to see where they are located at. I will let you know how it turns out. I am sure i will have other questions.
Don't know why both swing chains broke at the same time. My son was operating the machine at the time and if he was doing something stupid he-aint-talking.