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FMCSA cargo securement laws.

Discussion in 'Equipment Moving Questions' started by Jeff D., Sep 12, 2006.

  1. LowBoy

    LowBoy Senior Member

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    Retightening chains while in transit...

    I've been nailed twice in the past 2 weeks by DOT (end of the year quotas,...) once in Ct. and next in New York State. Both times I just left the loading point, and an hour later I was apprehended by the Long Arm of the Law. Both times ONE chain was slightly looser than the other ones due to settlement, etc. Even though I asked the officer if I could tighten it up, and DID, it was still written up and listed on the inspection report that is sent to Wash. D.C. as "loose chain on such-&-such corner of equipment".:nono

    I've been moving/hauling equipment in class 8 vehicles locally and long distances since 1978. No matter what you do to try and comply COMPLETELY with DOT & FMCSR's, believe me, if they are told by their superiors to write tickets, they're gonna write tickets. Whether it be in a brand spankingly new Peterbilt or a nostalgic old Brockway, normally you can't win the battle. Not once Beuford T. Justice makes up his mind that you're wrong. Then it's a matter of deciding if you want to spend the time, money and energy to go to night court at 7:30 p.m. on a Thursday evening in some town garage's makeshift courtroom, and stand in front of the judge that's usually also the dog catcher, the justice 'o peace, and the mailman...And still have it cost you a $25 fee for court costs even if you are found innocent of the crime, as they do in New York State. (I've had to play this silly game 3 times in NY in 20 years.):Banghead

    The bottom line is to try and do as the Federal rules indicate, that supercede all state and local ones.(That is also explained in the rules, that no state or locality shall add to or delete from Federal reg's..., paraphrased of course.)
     
  2. Dwan Hall

    Dwan Hall Senior Member

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    When they could find nothing else I have been writen up for a cluttered cab. (old hamer head behind the seat). He also tried to write me up for a cracked mid truck reflector on a truck that was only 21 feet long. I took out the broken hammer head and removed the reflector as it was not required.
    I understand if you have extra lights on your truck that are not required they still have to work or they can get written up. So redundency does not always pay.
    They will always find something.even a dirty windsheld.
     
  3. Cat420

    Cat420 Senior Member

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    I've heard some guys will leave something simple wrong on purpose. Then when the picky inspector is going over you with his fine tooth comb, he finds the simple thing and is satisfied rather than search until finding something really bad.
     
  4. LowBoy

    LowBoy Senior Member

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    I can see the point to this scenario, but with my luck, the "simple" thing will just "simply" be added to the rest of the list that the picky inspector writes up... It really is ALL in the individual. I was raked over the coals in Connecticut the other week by a stone-faced one,:mad: but last week I was given an easier sentence by a decent New York state inspector. You just never know, but it really helps to "yes-sir" & "no-sir" 'em at any cost. :notworthy
     
  5. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    I guess I've been lucky. I haven't had instances where I've fealt I've been wrongly given a ticket. I been given numerous warning tickets for "Logbook not current" and I've even been shut down twice for running over 10hours, but have had only to sit for my 8hr break(when it still was 8hrs) in the scale and then let go without a fine.

    I do like Lowboy does, "Yes Sir, No Sir". Maybe that's helped.

    I hear enough stories about the bad ones too know I'm probobly gonna meet one some day, though.
     
  6. Bob Horrell

    Bob Horrell Charter Member

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    I was stopped once for chains. The officer asked "Do you know why I stopped you". I replied "No sir". He said "You don't have enough chain for your load" as he grabbed one of the chains in his hand and added,"I have no idea what these are rated at but the best they could be for this size is 2,600lbs if they are hardened". What I use is military chains used on C130 cargo planes. They are pretty skinny looking chains that would normally be only 2,600 lbs if they were hardened. They come with a quick release binder that works really slick. I bought them for $25 per set (chain with binder) at a surplus store.
    When I responded that they were rated at 10,000 lbs. he kinda rolled his eyes and gave me really bad look. I asked if I could pull one out of my tool box to show him what I meant. I have one that still has the military tag on it that states the rating. When I showed it to him, he just kept staring at it in disbelief. Finally he asked me where I got them. I told him. He then asked how much I paid for them. I told him. His final comment was, "I can't imagine what kind of metal this is or how much the military paid for them, but if it is good enough for the military and used in aircraft, it has to be good enough for me - have a nice day". He turned around and walked back to his vehicle without looking at anything else which was a real shock because this hardly ever happens. I think he was so dumbfounded by the rating on these skinny little chains that he forgot to do any other checking.
     
  7. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    Bob, do those aircraft chain binders look like this one?

    My father gave me some that he had from the Air Force, but I can't get any of my chain to fit in it correctly. The military chain must be slightly different size than regular.

    It does say "10,000lbs capacity" on it though, like you said.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Bob Horrell

    Bob Horrell Charter Member

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    They are very similar. The release mechanism is different (I like the one on yours better). The problem is the chain is really small looking. If you were to go to your local hardware store and look at the hardened chains that are rated at 2600lbs you would have about the same size. They only work with that size chain and of course a 2600lb chain is kinda stupid with a 10,000lb binder. I have been looking for more of these but haven't found any yet. If you want to part with the binders you have I sure would be interested since the chains will last a lot longer than the binders and some day I will have to replace the binders I have. If you would like to part with them let me know what you want for them. If you could find chains for them they are worth keeping but I have looked for several years now with no luck.
     
  9. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    Yup, the chains I tried either were too short between links (5/16" grade 70)(if they would've been elongated slightly) or if it did have enough space between the links it was too fat to fit in the groove(3/8").:beatsme

    I imagine the military must have had specially spec'd chain that was hardened.

    If I do decide too part with them I'll let you know, but for now I think I'll hang on to them in case I can find the right chain some day.
     
  10. Bob Horrell

    Bob Horrell Charter Member

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    The chains are pretty easy to spot since they have a real wierd shaped hook on one end. There is a tag on a small ring on the opposite end that has the 10,000lb rating noted on it. They are about 7 or 8 feet long. Good luck in your search. If I ever run across any I will let you know.
     
  11. Countryboy

    Countryboy Senior Member

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    There is a guy next to the local flea market that sells army surplus out of his very large back yard. He has whole plane fuselages all the way down to shoe laces for combat boots. I picked up some taxi chains a while back, that were used to taxi planes to the runway, for a couple bucks. I've been wanting to go back but haven't had the time. This weekend I will go up there and take a look. If he doesn't have them then maybe he will know where to get some.
     
  12. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    Cool, let us know what you find out.:yup

    Thanks!
     
  13. CEwriter

    CEwriter Senior Member

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  14. Countryboy

    Countryboy Senior Member

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    I'm glad this thread came back up because honestly I had forgotten about it.:eek:

    I talked to the guy at the surplus place and although he didn't have any, he knew what I was talking about. He got my name and number and said he would call me if he found some. I might take a trip up there in a couple weeks and check with him again.
     
  15. case310350

    case310350 Well-Known Member

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    So to tie down a backhoe, you need 4 chains. on the older machines there are no hooks. and in the manual it shows securing the machine with only two chains.

    so where do you tie into the backhoe so you can have 4 chains?

    I know you have to tie down the loader bucket and the boom.

    Just don't see how to apply the new rule to older machine.
     
  16. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. You still could use 2 long chains for the main frame, and seperate shorter chains for the loader bucket and hoe.

    The 2 long chains that pass through the mainframe and connect to the trailer on each end would need to have a greater capacity than if you used 4 shorter chains.

    Example: If you had a 10k machine, the rear chain(to prevent forward/side motion@.8g) would need to have a 8k WLL, and the front chain(to prevent rearward/side motion @.5g) would need to have a 5k WLL.

    You would only need two binders then.

    If you used 4 seperate chains, those chains could have 1/2 the WLL of above, but you would need 4 binders then.


    Could you hook the chain at those points at all? If not, I guess it would be trying to find something to loop the chain around and hook to itself. Something structurely sound, like the axle, etc.

    Yup, they would require atleast one chain/binder each, also.
     
  17. Grader4me

    Grader4me Senior Member

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    Hi there Jeff. Maybe I am reading this wrong? :confused: Is running two long chains through the frame hooked with two binders legal? I think that he is supposed to have the four individual chains to the main backhoe and extra chains & binders for the attachments
    If the older machine has no anchor points then as you suggested would be the answer.
    Looking forward to your feedback
     
  18. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    I tried to verify what I said (2 chains through frame instead of 4), as it was my understanding of the rules, but I can't find anything which backs that up. Rather I found this:
    From this site:http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul.../cs-policy.htm

    It does say affixed to mounting points on the vehicle, so passing through doesn't sound like affixed, does it?:beatsme

    I tried the other site I'd a link to earlier, which expalined things in simpler terms, but it won't work for me now, for some reason.http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/c...ment-16-04.pdf

    So, without anything else to back up my claim, it appears that I am wrong in the above post.:Banghead

    I apoligize for that, if so.:)

    If the additional chains binders needed for the bucket and hoe would count towards that total of (4) required, it may still be considered legal. I wouldn't want to chance it without more authoritative input, though.
     
  19. Grader4me

    Grader4me Senior Member

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    No need to apologize Jeff. All of these rules and regulations are hard for anybody to understand. Your math with the WLL of the chains is good :thumbsup
    That by itself is enough to make a persons head reel :spaz

    Good idea....but...I wouldn't want to chance it either :wink2
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2007
  20. Bob Horrell

    Bob Horrell Charter Member

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    You can use one long chain on the front and one on the rear with two binders on each one. If you do it right, it is the same as two chains front and two chains rear. If one side breaks, the other side is still secure. I hope that makes sense. DOT has never questioned it.