Filling a pond....

[JD8875]

I had a customer call this week asking about filling farm a pond. Normally my work involves digging or repairing existing ponds. This is the first one I've been asked to fill in. The customer wants to just push the dam back in the hole and grade the area. He cut the dam on the pond approximately a year ago, but the problem is it still has about 18" of water in the bottom of it. My thought is cut a trench through the hole in the damn with my mini ex to let as much of the water out as possible then pump whats left. Here's where the head scrathcing begins..... I'm thinking in order to fill the pond and keep it solid the slime in the bottom should be cleaned out first and then the dam shoved in to have a solid base to fill to. I have a place close by I could go with the slime but it will substantially add to the cost of job. Just want to make sure I cover all my bases on my bid for the job.

Opinions, Questions, and Complaints welcome
John

 

[Oxbow]

Make sure that you are not now filling a wetland. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) now consider man-made (irrigation ditches, ponds, impoundments) that create wetland conditions (soils, plants, hydrology) a wetland that must be permitted before filling. This may not apply in your area, but here the fines can be enormous for violations. USACE has different criteria that they use from district to district so this may not be an issue for you, but it may pay to ask a few questions. They use satellite photos and even infrared imaging here to detect wetland areas, so out-of-site out-of-mind is not a safe way to go anymore. Where your customer built this just a year ago the wetland plants may not have migrated to the water edge yet, so perhaps this is not an issue.

We are often able to begin filling opposite a relief area (your ditch in the dam) and essentially push the slime out with the fill. It is messy, and you sometimes have to excavate the last bit of muck out, but at least it corrals the muck such that you are not just chasing it around.

Don't mean to scare you about the wetland stuff, but it can be a very expensive lesson to learn.

 

[Turbo21835]

Pretty simple in my opinion. I would create a new berm below your pond to catch any slop. Then I would push your fill material in a manner in which you "charge" the muck towards the bermed area. Then I would lay the muck on top of your fill and allow to dry, the put a final grade to everything.

 

[buckfever]

I have done it two ways. The first way is just like Turbo21835 said and the second way is just push the fill in over top of the muck. I would only recomend the latter if the area you are filling will only be used to grow grass and you have a LPG dozer.

 

[JD8875]

Thanks guys. i figured I had to be over thinking this project somerwhere. I like the idea of "charging" the slime out of the cut in the dam. That sounds like it would work well and be an eficient way to get that stuff out of the way without wasting time and fuel on it. The equipment available will be my mini ex, skid steer, and a 953 or 63 LGP. This is the first time I've had a farmer want to get rid of a pond so it was kind of new territory for me.

Thanks Again. I love this place!
John

 

[Tony H]

JD8875, wish you were close I can use someone to tell me how to fix a leaky pond. Just bought this property and the man made pond ( about 60' diameter) leaks. Wondering if I could spinkle dry clay on the surface and have it fill the leak like Radiator sealer.
At Summers end it is low but maintains a level, I wonder if that is the leak line like a ripped liner on a pool. maybe pack clay at the waterline when the waterline stabilizers in the dry Summer.

 

[heavylift]

Leaky pond = bore gel

I worked for a well cementing company years ago. we would take a mix truck and bulk truck to a pond. drop a suction and discharge hose into the pond, then start circulating bore gel. It would slowly circle the entire pond, it would look very nasty for a few days until the bore gel settled to the bottom

 

[Tony H]

Leaky pond = bore gel

I worked for a well cementing company years ago. we would take a mix truck and bulk truck to a pond. drop a suction and discharge hose into the pond, then start circulating bore gel. It would slowly circle the entire pond, it would look very nasty for a few days until the bore gel settled to the bottom

Never heard of it but I'll look into it. Is this some 'over the counter' purchase or do I need to find a Well Driller that wants to help some silly land owner with a leaky Pond?

 

[Turbo21835]

Tony, what you are looking for is bentonite. You can buy that over the counter at any well supply store. Depending on the size of the pond it will take a good bit. I have never seen the pump method done but it makes sense. When I grout pipe, or wells, we mix out bentonite in a tub with water until it is a milkshake or thinner consistency, then pump it where ever we need it. You will want the bags of powder, not the chips. Another way to do this is to drain the pond. Once the pond is drained, you spread a layer of bentonite, and then till it in to a depth of 4 inches, then compact and refill the pond.

 

[Dickjr.]

Isn't bentonite the same thing as bore gell? Bentonite is more course like kitty litter.

 

[Tinkerer]

Tony H; I spent a lot of time mixing bentonite with clay and water. It was delivered to the job sites in semi-trailers. The same kind of trailers that haul cement to concrete batch plants. The bentonite was in a powder form. It could be unloaded directly into the pond. If your pond does not have a solid bottom under the soft material that is laying on top you would need to dewater it and let it dry enough until you can get in it with a dozer. Bentonite will seal the pond if it installed correctly. There are different kinds of bentonite. Sodium bentonite I believe is the type you will need. It expands in volume when water is added to it. We used hundreds of loads of it on different jobs.

 

[Randy88]

JD, I've done quite a few fill ins over the years, never did it like anyone suggested, you never said the time frame, so I'll go with a suggestion of a cheaper way. I'd shove out the dike, push the dirt up and to the side of the pond, you said only 18 inches of water was all there's ever been in it, so your not talking 15 feet of water logged muck to deal with, I'd dig out the area so it drains somewhat where the dike was, then let mother nature do her job and dry the pond bottom out somewhat, then forget the slime, muck and all those headaches and go back a month or so later, with any dozer, and shove things and landscape it like the owner wants.

If it were me, depending on the soil type and what the area looks like, before I'd get carried away with the slime or landscaping, I'd run some tile up through the pond, winch the trencher through and let the tile do the work, it would be messy to tile, but in days, I'd be shoving semi dry ground and eliminated most of the headaches and expense of dealing with the muck. I'd make sure the area isn't designated wetlands, and if it is, I'd have the owner, do a wetlands exchange and shove the wetlands towards the lower end of the area, and then tile it above that BS and when done, the area is nice and dry, but without seeing it or knowing your states laws I don't know for sure if thats allowed or not,it is in my state. Just a different suggestion to ponder over.

 

[C130 eng]

How much dirt do you have in the dam bove the elevation of the silt and water? I guess im saying most of the time in northwest Missouri you can bridge good dirt over the mud and just forget about the mud. If you start on both ends of the dam and push towards the middle it will push the water out. Gotta make sure you keep three feet or so of good dirt under you so starting on both ends is key to getting a good bridge of dirt and not getting burried. Been there done that!

 

[Tony H]

I looked up BORE GEL and saw that it is basically Sodium bentonite. I read about using that so I guess it's the same.

In late August when we have had little rain and the streams are dry, the pond drops to a specific level and then stops.. I assume That the leak is at that level so maybe I can walk the waterline and put down several inches on bentonite in dry form and as the wet season starts.. maybe it will fill and expand in the leak...
Another thought was to run this large pump (inlet hose, outlet hose connected to a 5 HP engine and pump) to get the water in the pond moving, almost like creating a slow whirlpool in the 60' diameter pond. then pour the powdered bentonite on the out side of the pump to push it around the Pond. I don't think I have the means to get some of the Pumping Equipment that some of you have mentioned..
It would be wonderful to get a Cement truck full of this Slurry and pour it down the Inside face of the dam. I'm sure it would find it's leak that way.
Thanks for the ideas... Bentonite seems to keep popping up as teh answer.. I just have to figure a way to get it to work for me.

 

[Tinkerer]

We did the bentonite preparation in a two step process. We bermed up clay to make a small pond. Then filled it half full with water. The powder form of bentonite was then dumped into the water and a 6" pump circulated it around and around until a thin slurry was made. That slurry was the transferred with the same pump into another pond. That is when a D8N would mix the dry clay with that slurry until it was the consistency of high slump concrete. Good grief what a mess that dozer was. I would sometimes be in slurry as high as the panels around the engine. It was normal to see slurry as high as the crankshaft damper. We then loaded that slop into trucks and hauled it to slurry trenches that were being put around garbage dumps. I was told that the leech-ate from the dump would never be able to migrate through those trenches once the slurry cured.
I think if you go with the bentonite it will be a fairly easy task. You will be able to do everything right where it will stay. Just pump the the pond water out and let it dry until you can get in with a dozer and do your thing. Don't even think about using a wide track dozer to do the mixing . We tried it, and a wide-track will not grind the bentonite into the clay.

 

[heavylift]

The stuff we used was bentonite, the bulk part was emptying about 200 sacks into the bulk truck, at the warehouse. It was then slowly dumped into the mix hopper of the pump/mix truck at the pond.