1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Fiat Allis 16B

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by sfchovis, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. ACcrazy

    ACcrazy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    74
    Occupation:
    Mechanic
    Location:
    Eureka, California
    sfchovis- Do you have any pics of your machine you could post up? Everybody likes pictures. :)

    How about you, HD21A? Any pics of your machines? I'm a big fan of AC dozers--especially the 16s and 21s.
     
  2. nutwood

    nutwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Tasmania
    Like the story Bob. I bought my Fiat from an old contractor. His reason for selling was that he was 86 and the family had told him he was getting too old for dozing. No way! Soon as I bought his machine, he went out and bought an old wreck he had his eye on, re-built it and went back contracting. He was on the wrong side of ninety when they finally persuaded him to take a holiday. Went on holiday, came back and went straight into hospital. Never came out. I reckon if they'd left him on his dozer, he'd still be going!
     
  3. HD21A

    HD21A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    Occupation:
    Manage and operate family farm
    Location:
    Chillicothe, Ohio
    Will get some pictures when I figure out how to post them on this site, looked at picture posting yesterday, will try it later.

    Nutwood My 21 friend , had some land and always joked , take the HD21P and dig a big hole, take the blade off, run the 21 in the hole, my casket laying across the 2 battery boxes, fill it with dirt, blade on top of the grave as the head stone. We became very good friends and before he died, he gave me his collection of new polished brass AC belt buckles, key chains, and other AC items that had been given to him by the AC corporation. I was the only AC person in the area that never went to him and asked for something and expected him to give it to me. Bought some very nice tools at his sale. Will try picture this weekend.

    Bob
     
  4. sfchovis

    sfchovis Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Shoals, Indiana
    td25c,

    I still have forward motion and will shift between 1 & 2 and drive but when it comes to pushing...it just stops and feels like something under the seat is slipping. Could it still be what you mentioned?

    Hovis
     
  5. dirthog

    dirthog Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    393
    Occupation:
    heavy equipment mechanic
    Location:
    central pa
    Quicks way to see if it is the torque or trans. is remove the floor boards and see if the driveshaft stalls when the machine does. If it stops trouble is more than likely in the torque even though you say reverse seem ok you will have a hard time putting enough strain on it to slip in reverse anyhow.
     
  6. sfchovis

    sfchovis Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Shoals, Indiana
    I can spin the tracks in reverse.

    Hovis
     
  7. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Messages:
    5,251
    Location:
    indiana
    It sure could.If there is damage to the sealing rings it will cause the clutch packs to slip from low pressure.Im satisfied you have pressure loss in the system and may have a burnt /wasted forward clutch pack in the transmission.Thats generally what causes a clutchpack to go bad is low pressure or extreme wear.The bearing retainer/manifold is a good place to start looking.You will know more after ya pull the inspection cover on the bottom of the transmission.On the bottom right hand corner of the instrument panel you should have a transmission lube gauge,just to the left of it is the transmission pressure gauge.Might try comparing what the transmission pressure gauge reads in forward then in reverse to get an idea if there is pressure loss.Hopefully its something simple like a broken sealing ring........Think positive:D
     
  8. HD21A

    HD21A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    Occupation:
    Manage and operate family farm
    Location:
    Chillicothe, Ohio
    My Allis, manpower shifter

    Been playing with picture posting test site

    This is my best of three 3 HD21s I have. The tracks are excellent, the sprockets and blade push arms are off a C model 21, the engine is a low time rebuilt 25,000Mark 4 engine. Rebuilt a new exhaust stack for it. Was starting an oil chane so I put the blade on the old TD15 tracks so I could crawl under it.

    The second 21 is a cable machine,Mark 4 engine, tracks and undercarriage excellent. He extended the blade push arms a foot and 1/2 longer. That blade raises higher and was his tree killer , brush pushing machine. Everyting is further from the radiator.

    My third 21 is and earlier 21 which is a running parts machine, tracks shot, dry clutch machine and a good 3 valve engine. Got about 100 hours of work from it before I bought these other 2 mchines.

    I have had one stuck twice, nice to have an extra machine to pull you out.


    IMG_0024_640x480_640x480.jpg
     
  9. HD21A

    HD21A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    Occupation:
    Manage and operate family farm
    Location:
    Chillicothe, Ohio
    HD21P Junk heap

    Here is an HD21P I went to look at, they said it need some engine work and could be bought cheap. This operation had a big clay pit and the dozer owner was pushing clay for him.
    It had a low time AC 25,000 engine in it that had came out of a generator unit. The old man said it ran fine until the operator started working a grade then blue smoke came out of the engine and it seized. The engine had the shallow oil pan for stationary generator use. I didn't have the 15 gallon sump pan and dual oil pumps for dozer operation. Told him I didn't need any projects.

    IMG_0014.jpg


    Bob Ohio
     
  10. D6 Merv

    D6 Merv Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    609
    Occupation:
    Self employed bulldozing contractor with a D6D D4E
    Location:
    Coromandel Peninsula. New Zealand
    Nice HD21A. Bob ! still got plenty of life left in her.
    not sure here, but understood 21As with the thousand series motors were 225 hp. When the 21P came out they pumped them up to 268hp. Also know the As first gear speed was 3.1mph but the Ps had a very fast 1st gear of 4.1mph. so engine and converter would both be working pretty hard and producing alot of heat.
    Scrubpuller, yeah can imagine chaining would be real hard on machines and men too ! Never heard of anyone chaining here; not enough flat land; Alot of people towed roller choppers on easy country.And yo yoed them off winch ropes all day long doing steep country.
    Had mates with 11EPs with the farr aircleaners and yes were enough of a problem here. Yours scrub clearing would have been a real pita. ! All here were changed to ordinary donaldson units like the series 2 EP and series B.
    Bob owner of the 21P was the engineer of his own demise, should have known to fit the different sump and oil pumps. Don,t need to be too smart to know industrial engines are used in aflat situation, dozers in all sorts of silly situations !
    Besides would be pretty obvious the sumps of the 2 engines were different when they swapped them.
    Hovis if your lucky might be like TD25 said, sealing rings. Said to check collectors earlier. Hopefully clutch packs will be ok. Pressures for clutch engagement should be 170 to 190 psi
    When you get it sorted, check the driveshaft locks up in 1and 2 forward with brakes on and blade down. Stationery tractor and spinning driveshaft equals slipping clutchs
     
  11. ACcrazy

    ACcrazy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    74
    Occupation:
    Mechanic
    Location:
    Eureka, California
  12. fjdrill

    fjdrill Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Alabama
    I went to look @ a AC hd16 parts tractor above Birmingham Al. Turned out to be a F/A 16B {he also had a F/A 21 **. He said that he wanted to move the 16 out of the briers and across the road because he had been offered .17$ a pound. I think he's going to cash out of the parts business. I did not look @ the dozers very well - they were in two locations. If anyone is interested I've got his Phone #'s. Forrest
     
  13. sfchovis

    sfchovis Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Shoals, Indiana
    fjdrill,

    Can you give me his phone number.

    thanks
    Hovis
     
  14. fjdrill

    fjdrill Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Alabama
    Hovis. The #"s are 205-647-7122 [Al Tractor office], 205-515-3123 [cell] . His name is Herman Muaverhill-located in Trafford Al . I'm sorry it took so long to reply. Reguards. Forrest
     
  15. sfchovis

    sfchovis Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Shoals, Indiana
    Thanks,

    Just got off the phone with him....he's going to check out the dozer and get back with me.

    Hovis
     
  16. fjdrill

    fjdrill Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Alabama
    Hovis. Did you get the tranny working? Forrest.
     
  17. sfchovis

    sfchovis Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Shoals, Indiana
    Not yet, haven't had time to check the oil pressures. I need to set up a gage/line and adapters.

    Hovis
     
  18. Grantc

    Grantc Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Michigan
    New to me 16b

    Just got this at an auction. Runs and operates. Looks to be 2600 original hours. Has a huge 3 tooth ripper also.

    What are some things to watch for on this dozer/common problems.

    I also need to put some new sprockets on/ anyone know a source.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. hd16b

    hd16b Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    43
    Occupation:
    Farmer by name and trade
    Location:
    Stokes, NC
    Give me a call I can give you some pointers.252 916 2927