Fair Value:

[colson04]

The engine runs very well. Started right up with a replacement coil installed. I could only get the hydraulic steering, basket swivel, basket level, and boom telescoping in and out functions to work. Could not get the machine to move, swing, or elevate. Shifting the diverter valve to "axles" rather than steering does attempt to pull the axles in, but I'd bet the machine needs to be rolling for that to happen. I'm thinking there may not be a relay string pulling in but I've not studied a print yet so just guessing at this point. The boom elevation toggle switch in the ground control panel feels lazy and I'm kinda thinking the switch may be bad. If so, the boom switch in the basket is in series with this ground control position so is suspect till proven otherwise. I found a couple of solenoid valves with the wires corroded off but jumpering the coils did make them operate but still couldn't get the boom to react. The electric auxiliary hydraulic pump motor is not operational and I put 12VDC to it directly. The magnetic solenoid which supplies power to this motor closes as it should but the motor doesn't operate. I need to do some more reading to ascertain just what this auxiliary pumping unit is for.

Auxilliary pumping unit gets you back to the ground should your engine shut down and fail to restart. Running out of fuel being usual culprit. It won't lift anything (at least mine won't) but it will get you back to earth. My 45HA only.has controls to activate auxilliary pump from basket.

 

[1693TA]

Thanks, I was thinking along those lines but was not any kind of certain. From the service manual I did find this diagram and the solenoids for the actions I was able to make operate are oriented correctly as shown here:



Really didn't think too much of it till now but there are some handwheel valves on the front of the housing. All of these valves are open and one was labled "manual descent rate". Looking through the manual, I see these valves are into many functions and I'd wager they need to be closed for normal operation which at least the one is not. This is the trouble with having no experience with these type things; have to figger it out along the way. The telescoping function would extend about a foot before digging into the pavement and the retraction was very slow. Extension was 10 times as fast as retraction. Again, and as can be seen on the print, these valves are into everything that wasn't working, (it seems) so may have been an oversight on my part.

Thursday is my daughter and family date night so was on a compressed schedule and really didn't have time to dwell into the machine much. I was really surprised how easily the engine fired up as it's been setting a full three years.

Once I get the unit operational and back to my shop, I'll pull that auxiliary pumping unit and send it in for rebuild. It kind of sounds like it may be important to have. I put 12VDC to it directly with my jumper box and it didn't even attempt to move so may be something simple like brushes/commutator corroded, or simply burned up.

Thanks again,

 

[OFF]

The procedure for retracting the axles, involves taking the weight off the axle being retracted by lifting it off the ground using the boom.

and YES, all those manual decent valves need to be closed.

 

[OFF]

The fact that your telescope functions, tells me that you have flow to that valve section (proportional dump valve is working). If closing the manual decent valves doesn't get the boom & drive working, you can operate them manually by pushing the little pins right on the valve sections while on ground control. Assuming you have Racine proportional valves that is.
Not a fix but enough to get the axles in and the old girl loaded on a trailer.

There is also a way to unlock the brakes if you can't get drive working.

 

[1693TA]

It does have the little pins protruding from the valve body(s). I couldn't get any action from them with manual depression but if I'm dumping right back to tank with those valves open, it would stand to reason. That was before I knew those hand valves existed. I'll get over there by the weekend and the first thing I'll do is rotate those valves closed, and give it a go again.

One thing good is I've not seen any blown hoses and it's not spraying hydraulic oil anyplace.

 

[OFF]

It does have the little pins protruding from the valve body(s). I couldn't get any action from them with manual depression but if I'm dumping right back to tank with those valves open, it would stand to reason. That was before I knew those hand valves existed. I'll get over there by the weekend and the first thing I'll do is rotate those valves closed, and give it a go again.

One thing good is I've not seen any blown hoses and it's not spraying hydraulic oil anyplace.

The little buttons will only work on ground control. The dump valves are directing flow to the valves continuously when on ground. Or on basket, when your foot is on the pedal.

 

[1693TA]

Looks like those manual descent control valves are definitely a player:

 

[1693TA]

Racine proportional valves for certain as they look just like this:


I keep learning more, (I feel) as I read into these manuals. Surely getting anxious to try out some new knowledge with the machine.

I did find the written procedure for spreading and retracting the axles, along with manually lowering, and retracting the boom via the hand knobs. That auxiliary hydraulic pump should, (according to the manual) be able to lift, swing, and telescope the boom, (albeit slowly) in an emergency or as Colson stated, when the fuel supply is exhausted. The grandson tells me they drove and parked the lift to where it sets now. It was the boom functions they could not rely upon. I think corroded wire terminations are suspect myself.

 

[1693TA]

Finally found this blurb:





Appears there are three different "PQ" series controllers used in this thing according to part numbers. Never have been into one but probably very minor differences between the types.

 

[1693TA]

Further reading explains the manual valves and their operations:



Auxiliary pump operation:



Auxiliary pump purpose:




Looks like I may need to venture over that way to reinforce some newfound knowledge. Raining and chilly now but supposed to clear up later today.

 

[1693TA]

Well, some success, and maybe a diagnosis to the boom problem. I picked up a new starting battery on the way over this morning and the engine fired off easily using the electric choke switch in the ground control panel. As the engine was warming I closed the valves for the manual lowering function and attempted to use the ground controls to raise the boom with no success. No fuses blown, nor breakers tripped and depression of any of the pins on the proportional valves garners an immediate response in raising, and swing. I did not try to move the machine as it's settled into the dirt and sporting a flat drive tire. No need to tear something up unnecessarily and will bring a portable compressor with me next visit.

I've not studied any prints yet but "massaging" the PQ controller handle(s) in the basket when in basket control will garner some boom action, but it's not linear. Elevation of the boom is very "iffy", so this controller may be defunct, or just oxidized in terminations. Not really having a good selection of tools with me limits troubleshooting ability, but I did pull one PQ joystick controller and it's circuit card assembly to clean up on the bench.

Looks promising so far. Those proportional valve are "all, or nothing" when you manually depress the buttons and without delay.....

 

[1693TA]

Am I assuming this "mercury switch" shown in the red box with it's terminations having a red arrow is the switch mounting on the side of the boom that precludes raising above 8' till the wheels are spread and it's wheel spread microswitches are satisfied?



I'm not really able to post a good clear print as the original from the .pdf service manual is not that clear. Here is the switch shown in the yellow circle I'm referencing which is mounted horizontal when the boom is raised parallel to the ground:



I need to get over there this morning and have a small compressor with me. Once I have that tire inflated I'll get the boom to raise the axles and make plans to get the lift back to my place.

 

[DMiller]

Mercury switches Ugh!! They are their own problem as the mercury arcs across contacts it forms a insulator material on the contacts, at some point they just no longer work and are sealed units. Only way to know if are a problem is to bypass. Good luck on finding a replacement as may end up with something next gen.

 

[OFF]

I remember the mercury switch being mounted to the inside edge of the cover that attaches to the rear of the boom. The one you show looks like something to do with the telescope function. If your boom raises to horizontal and stops there, won't go any higher, you know you need a mercury switch. (or something more modern to replace it with)

 

[1693TA]

Got some action out of it and ready to transport now. I found a replacement magnetic contactor "crowbarred" over and applying voltage to a coil which allows hydraulic flow to the proportional valves constant. The contactor I mention is probably a Ford starter solenoid that is intermittent duty where the requirement is 100% duty cycle. Regardless, after jumpering this with a test lead after removing the copper strip between the power side and switched side after verifying the trigger wire was called for with ignition "on", the hydraulics came to life with the buttons in the ground control station.



I was able to run the boom up, down, and rotate the turntable with the ground control switches. I then telescoped out a bit, set the boom on the ground, lifted the wheels, pulled the pin and sucked the axles in without effort. After rotating the turntable 180 degrees, I did the same to the other axles. Then I discovered I could no longer use the toggle switches to raise the boom although all other functions worked. Manually pushing the button on the proportional valve readily raised it however so probably a relay or as mentioned earlier, the switch feels "lazy". The scenario is duplicated with basket controls where everything that should work does, except boom raising with the toggle switch. I'll try to borrow a truck and trailer to bring it back to the shop this evening but may be a couple of days if busy. Here it is moved and awaiting my next move:




Damned portable compressor would only make 15psi for some reason so the tire which was flat, (LR) is still low but given the several cracking, it will be replaced.

 

[1693TA]

Looks like one of two possibilities for the lift function to not be working. Switch in ground control panel:



or the relay which controls the function:



Given the lift function ceased in both locations, (ground, basket) controls at the same time, I wager the relay has gone bad in it's "up" contacts. In a glace of the relays in the junction box there are three kinds. Stuthers-Dunn, Potter & Brumfield, and Grainger branded. I did not pull, or verify if they are all like kind and voltage. There are also three different types/brands of magnetic switches also. I see Delco, Cole-Hersee, and Ford types so over the years someone has done some troubleshooting and/or shotgunning of parts. I have also found several wiring terminations with "Vaco" type crimp ends which are not environmentally sealed against the elements and corroded. Two were actually broken loose and have been repaired.

At some point I will need to pull the lift cylinders out and send them in for rebuild. The main cylinder is leaking at the gland a bit as is the stabilizing cylinder for lack of a better description. I dumped 10 gallons of AW-32 hydraulic oil into the reservoir which was right at the "add" mark on the dipstick. Don't really want to add more as the complete system will be changed including filters before going into service. No massive leaks anyplace, just seepage types except the lift cylinder(s). Wear pads on the boom sections need replaced or rebuilt also.

I was surprised how easy it was to raise and retract the axles. Really is just about as fast as outriggers but does take leaving the basket to unpin, operate, and repin the axles and steering linkage into place. I can live with that easy enough.

Day started at 4:00am so didn't get the machine home this evening. Will do it tomorrow as the truck and trailer are reserved. I should be able to drive it up onto the trailer under it's own power and I'll grab a photo to post once loaded.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[1693TA]

Off, you were correct in the placement of the mercury switch being located at the rear housing of the boom. I cannot tell however as the electrical prints don't drill down enough to allow me to know what this mercury switch actually interrupts, or drops out to preclude further boom elevation till the wheel switches are satisfied. The photo I had posted earlier with the boom raised is with the wheels in so don't know if this mercury switch is bypassed, the wheel switches are bypassed, or if parts are done away with. My jumper across the burnt open contactor would not be considered as if I remove that, all hydraulics to raise/lower the boom, drive the wheels, and turntable are dead.

The boom switch I had shown in an earlier photo is a limit switch for boom extension:

Mercury switch shown as reference 194:

Limit switch shown as reference 162:

 

[1693TA]

Loaded up on the trailer and now back to my shop. The ground control switch is proven bad and I've rounded up another so will replace it tomorrow most likely. Breaking the wire loose and reading across the terminal when cycling the switch through positions yields very erratic operation.

Been raining pretty good all morning and low 40's in temp so I'm a bit chilled being in it most of the morning.

Here you go as promised:

Loaded and chained for transport:





Dragged it the 54 miles back to the shop and will work with it later.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[OFF]

It's not easy being green......

Yes, the system will allow you to raise the boom to horizontal even with the axles retracted. That's normal. This is to allow you to load & unload from a truck/trailer.

That switch you highlighted on the side of the boom a few posts ago is to cut out high drive when the boom is extended.

 

[1693TA]

I really don't worry too much about being green; in reality, I usually leave the largest carbon footprint around to ensure future generations understand where I've been, and the dues paid to get there.....

Rooting through some of my bench stock tonight I located three Cole-Hersee style magnetic switches, and a couple DPDT 20 momentary contact toggle switches. These are Crouse-Hinds brand and not enviromentally sealed, but they are interior to the enclosure so will probably suffice. The originals are not sealed. These are much higher quality than the chinese knockoffs easily available. I need to ascertain the duty cycle on these magnetic switches but they should be 100%.

After the trip home, I noticed a Cole-Hersee magnetic switch on the main frame of the machine. It metered open in the coil and was probably replaced with one of the parts store "Ford" types currently installed and defunct. I suspect it had shaken loose from the ride after being placed someplace in the main enclosure and forgotten about.

I'll get a good tune up tomorrow done and go from there along with cleaning the radiator core which is 3/4 plugged.

Makes good sense that limit switch on the boom. I'd imagine the ride could be a bit "jerky" with all the slack on the boom when extended. This boom really needs tightened up as it really oscillates back and forth when a man goes from one side of the basket to the other. The wear pads are extremely loose if present at all.