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EX60URG Final Drive issues?

Discussion in 'Excavators' started by quillc, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. quillc

    quillc Member

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    Built a tool with pins and the top centering bar tool and got the damned thing apart. The oring on one side of the floating seal was in about a dozen pieces. With any luck, I can get it put back together tomorrow. All the bearings look pretty tight and there are small amounts of wear products, but overall everything I saw other than the seals looks pretty good.
     
  2. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    One of the suggestions from CAT is to put the floating seal halves in the freezer, it stiffens the rubber and shrinks the diameter, helps them pop into place. Biggest concern is that they end up as level all around as possible. Good luck!
     
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  3. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Plus clean the ramps in the housing where the seal fits with alcohol or something like aerosol Brake Clean.

    This thread might give you a few installation ideas.
    https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/installing-floating-seals.36971/
     
  4. quillc

    quillc Member

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    For reference, here is the tool that I built to get the ring off. Turned out pretty well frankly.
     

    Attached Files:

    Nige and Kobelco ireland like this.
  5. quillc

    quillc Member

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    Some details I suppose. I used M10 bolts as the pegs. I drilled and tapped the plate (1/2") for M10 after laying out the pegs (by hand with a divider). I had bought bolts that had an unthreaded shank portion. I cut the bolts off to give a peg that would stick out by the right amount. I was just a shade of on the outer bolt locations so had to narrow those pegs down just a bit to make it fit. Fits extremely tightly. My presumption is that the factory tool was somewhat similar. The torque spec for the nut is 632 lb-ft. I wanted to build something that could hold up to that amount of force.
     
  6. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Nice job on the tool.
    I dunno if it's the photo but in the 4th one that shows part of the planetary assembly it looks distinctly "grubby" for want of a better word. Is that just a trick of the camera.?
     
  7. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    I agree... give her a good wash and double check the bearings, then what's our favorite lube Nige?
     
  8. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Seeing as the silcione rubber toric rings on the old duo-cone seal fell out in pieces it's my bet that what was in there before was an EP oil. In that case, can I have "What's an SAE 50 TO-4? for $500 please Alex".
     
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  9. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    The rest of the world used black Nitrile rubber torics Nige, but yes, we have a winner! CAT TDTO-50 FTW! See Alex for the payout though :rolleyes:
     
  10. quillc

    quillc Member

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    Cleaned up the ring sealing surface on both sides and commenced to attempting to install the seals.

    Several hours of cursing later... I still haven't been successful. Unbelievably frustrated and exhausted. if the damnedable seal wasn't $377, I'd have sent it sailing out the doors of the shop. I tried installing it without the 'wire and zip tie' method and with it. I almost had it once and it popped back out moments after I took my hands off of it. I was using a plastic trim prying stick that was blunted off. That couldn't get me enough leverage, so I sacrificed a screwdriver and blunted it off. That worked a little better, but was still unsuccessful. The manual of course just shows a person pushing on the seal with their hands. It does say to "For easier inserting, use a bamboo spatula to guide floating seal O-ring while installing."

    The lip on the housing is very much intact. I just can't seem to manage to compress the oring enough to slip it past that lip all the way around. I get 3/4 of the way and either slip and push the oring too far down or the side that is down pops up.

    The freezer trick didn't seem to do anything one way or another

    I haven't managed to damage the seal - yet.

    Anyone have a bright idea? Or do I just keep banging my head on the wall and eventually manage to get it?

    Once it is installed, it should be a VERY positive seal...

    Oh and I'll clean everything up just fine. Bearings look great. The 'grungy' look is just a trick of the camera.
     
  11. quillc

    quillc Member

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    One weird thing. Attached is a clip from my EX60 service manual (the EX55 manual says the same thing). The thing says to apply grease to be bore of the housing and to the outer part of the seal. With all the talk about installing the seal dry and/or WD40/silicone spray I'm a little confused. Everything I've seen elsewhere talks about installing dry etc.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    If all else fails, try it their way?
     
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  13. quillc

    quillc Member

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    After a lot of hate and some rage, one of the two is installed. I was going to quit for the night, but couldn't let it go. The steel ring sticks up from the housing about 11.6mm / .45" evenly + .1 or .2MM. I have to go to the dealer tomorrow to pick up one of the M14 socket head cap screws, so I'll see if one of the service techs will talk to me for five minutes.

    I'll struggle with the drive sprocket side of the seal tomorrow.

    The cap screws are conveniently M14-2.00 X 95MM. I can get a 90MM and a 100MM, but no one sells a 95MM in that size that I can find. The dealer can get them for $19 with tax, so I ordered the one that I wallered out getting the motor off.
     
  14. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    When you go to the dealer ask them if you can rent/borrow the installation tool for the seal. It makes installing them a breeze. Note there is a different tool for each size of seal.

    The only thing I can suggest is use Brake Clean or alcohol on the rubber and try to get the seal in while it's still wet with whatever you applied to it. You have to work pretty quick.

    upload_2021-3-29_16-4-45.png
     
  15. quillc

    quillc Member

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    The second one was... anticlimactic. Took 10 minutes to install. I did use the freezer suggestion and some denatured alcohol. This is the side that came out in chunks (the side that was so hard was intact) and I'm thinking that its just a shade larger opening.

    Talking to their senior service tech, they don't use any tool other than 'something blunt'. He seemed horrified by the idea of 'using grease' as the manual says and they just install them dry.
     
  16. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Good to hear that the 2nd half didn’t give you the trouble the first one did.

    I’m amazed they don’t have a seal installer tool though. How absolutely 19th-Century.....
     
  17. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    To my knowledge CAT is the only one that makes and sells seal installers.... anybody?
     
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  18. quillc

    quillc Member

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    One final update. I got the thing reassembled and installed it today. No leaks (yet)! Was getting dark, so just had my son drive it back and forth for 15 minutes. No drips. I used three liters of 80/90 wt from Napa. The manual just calls for 90wt, but very few places sell straight 90wt these days. I have a couple of gallons, but save it for my '49 Oliver HG. Given the condition of the brake piston D rings, I'll swap out them out on the other side in the coming couple weeks. The D rings on this side were very worn. The piston just popped out by hand, no burst of compressed air required. Torqueing the main retaining nut was... interesting. I ended up using a 6' section of C channel and bolted the motor flange down to it using some shortened M16 bolts. Sitting on the C channel while pulling on the torque wrench seemed to get it done. Torque spec was 362 lb ft. I had to do it three times before I was able to get the locking pin to line up. I used my electronic torque adapter (its just a load cell) and it worked very well with my 3/4" breaker bar. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009GLITFW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Getting the track back on wasn't too difficult with my tractor and a long breaker bar.
    Overall, the process wasn't too difficult other than the one ring. I suspect that if I end up having to do the other, I'll have much fewer issues overall. I would say that having a tractor or other piece of equipment that can pick this up is an absolute necessity and being able to build the tool that can pull the nut off is also required. I'm kind of shocked that this job is $3500 - 6000 depending upon who does it. I suspect that the previous owner had known the seal was going out (it didn't leak when I looked at it) as he had been working the machine and was selling it pretty cheapish for a fast sale. He wasn't the handy type and stated that he wanted a smaller machine. If this is the biggest problem I have with the machine, I'll consider myself having gotten a good deal.
     
  19. quillc

    quillc Member

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    I have about 6 hours on the machine including quite a bit of tracking around. No leaks! I'll consider it job done at this point. Thanks to everyone that helped out!
     
    John C. likes this.
  20. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    Good job, but check the oil level just for giggles:cool:
     
    Tones likes this.