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EX120-3 Scratched bucket cylinder rod. Seal Leaking.

Discussion in 'Excavators' started by Egetebee, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Egetebee

    Egetebee Well-Known Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    As the title says; over the summer I scratched the bucket cylinder rod and didn't notice so it damaged the seal.
    I epoxied & filed the rod and finished with fine sandpaper. The seal wept slightly and is workable but the leak is slowly getting worse. I'm using the machine and it works fine but would like to make the repair.
    So, am I looking at an entirely new cylinder or should I just repack and see what happens?

    Thank you,
    E
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  2. Ct Farmer

    Ct Farmer Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the size of the cylinder complete replacement may be cheaper over rebuild but if this is only a lightly used around the house machine the expoxy and a new seal kit may work good for quite awhile. I would polish it with more than sandpaper though.

    A proper repair would be to have the rod rechromed and then a new seal kit. Sometimes a new rod is cheaper than a rechrome. Just depends on your local resources .

    Where n New England are you? New Hampshire hyrdraulics does good work and several major dealers around here use them for their rebuilds. I had very good results from Fluid Power Services in Lancaster, NY on a rechrome/rebuild. They do all work in house and price was reasonable considering the large size of the cylinder 8” bore x 5” rod with 72” stroke.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
    funwithfuel, Delmer and Bls repair like this.
  3. Egetebee

    Egetebee Well-Known Member

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    Thanks CTFarmer,
    It is an '@ the farm' machine and while a little late, I'm much more careful with the bucket cylinder.
    Pretty sure I can do the re-seal myself.
    What should I polish it with, higher grades of sandpaper, like 1500 & 3000?

    I'll call NH Hydro in the AM and see what they say as well.

    Thanks again,
    E
     
    funwithfuel likes this.
  4. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Nothing wrong with replacing the seals and re-using the rod. You can take the rod, piston and gland out of the cylinder on the machine, easiest usually. Then you get to see if you have the resources to break the piston nut/bolt loose. Then it's easy.
     
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  5. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    I have had pretty good experience with rechroming if your not in a time crunch a good shop will usually take a week maybe a little more I have found the place I use to be more economical than replacing
     
  6. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

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    The only thing I would add, don't use any sealants, epoxies or flash chrome on a rod. With temperature changes and work loads, that material may come off and enter your hydraulic system. Then, its cat and mouse forever. Plugged orifice, sticking spools etc. Whenever I encounter a scratch, I'll hit it with a fine roloc buffing pad just to remove the sharp edges. If its gouged, it needs repair or resurfacing , but for most scratches you can just feel, the roloc is all you need.
     
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  7. Jonas302

    Jonas302 Senior Member

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    If the seal only seeped you may get by with just replacing it thats a pretty easy cylinder to work on just depends if its time or money thats most valuable if it doesnt work out I would throw a rough guess that rod would cost around 400 to make sometimes the dealers offer a reman on so check that option also

    The nuts going to be awful tight but you have a hoe its not a problem even if you have to plug the line chain the bucket up ect pin the rod eye to the hitch of the heaviest thing available a nice vee block cut from wood to support it and block the rod strait cut a nice six point wrench from heavy plate and press down with the hoe no fuss no drama with air guns
     
  8. Egetebee

    Egetebee Well-Known Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    Here are a few pics showing the repaired rod. I filed the sharp edges, cleaned very thoroughly and applied epoxy. Sanded smooth to 220 grit.
    Thank you all for your support,
    E
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Thanks Delmer,
    I've found seal kits for this cylinder that ranges from @ $60 for just the seal kit to $115 for seals with wear rings. Not sure what 'wear rings' are. Can anyone advise me on which I would normally replace?
    I can just imagine how tight the gland nut is and don't have another machine to help break it free, so that's a concern for sure.
    E

    Hi AzIron,
    I've included a few pics to help illustrate the scratch on the cylinder and whether it's a 'scratch' or 'gouge'. Have you or anyone else seen worse?
    Thank you,
    E

    Hmm, no epoxies huh? A bit late I'm afraid however it doesn't look like any has come off.
    Would you take a look at the pics and say whether you think it's a 'scratch' or 'gouge' and how you might repair?
    Thanks again,
    E


    Hi Jonas,
    It's encouraged you say "that's a pretty easy cylinder to work on". The workshop manual makes it look easy too ;)
    Apparently there's a lock screw holding the gland nut which needs to be drilled to access out it but seems doable.
    However breaking the gland nut seems like the biggest problem. Are you saying to make a wrench from flat plate; and if so how thick, 1/2"? How about a 2ft adjustable wrench?
    Much Appreciated,
    E
     
  9. Theweldor

    Theweldor Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, that is about as far from a scratch as you can get. A lot of good points were brought up as to why you should really consider replacing the rod. After seeing the damage I would say it definitely needs replaced. The direction of the damage running across the rod is the hardest on the seals. If your epoxy should come out the lip of the seal will not take that for very long. You could reseal it and be very careful not to use that part of the cylinder but it does limit how far you can open the bucket.
    The plate for the wrench will need to be 3/4 or maybe 1". You may need a socket if the head of the bolt or the nut is recessed in the piston head.
     
  10. Jonas302

    Jonas302 Senior Member

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    Well you need a rod repair on that one at that point might as well have the hyd shop take care of the nut also
    I would be talking more of 1 inch plate for the wrench if you did make one no way on an adjustable wrench maybe a 4ft pipe wrench but its not as safe and may end up broken

    If I was hard pressed to use that rod and accept some leakage for a couple hundred hours it would be all blended smooth no filler just smooth dents and make an effort not to use that part of the cylinder

    Wear rings are plastic that the gland slides on up and down the barrel you would want to replace them also
     
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  11. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    That rods junk in that condition I have scraped stuff with much less damage

    I would never use epoxxys to much chance of it coming apart like mention before

    Another thought the curl ram of an excavator is the most likely to suck in dirt with gouges like that in the rod you will take dirt into your hydralic system not to mention the chrome will keep flaking into the system as well

    That all adds up to your risking a system at thousands to repair or replace for inexpensive inconvenience that once bandaided has potential to stack up your down time
     
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  12. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

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    For future reference, scratches usually run the length of the rod or along the rod. Usually just enough to catch your thumbnail. That looks like someone chained the arm down to a crossmember without a block of wood in between.
    As mentioned before, scratches, just buff the high spots off, live with minor seepage and sweating. Gouges like those, repair/replacement is in order.
    Not trying to pile on, just giving you a reference for the future .
     
  13. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Talk to a good hyd. shop. It might be able to be repaired but would have to weigh the cost vs/ replacing the rod.
     
  14. Egetebee

    Egetebee Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone,
    I'm glad to have posted the pics for confirmation.
    Ok, got it. The rod is in rough shape and only possibly may be repaired but replacement is the best bet.
    So at this point, while it's weeping the machine is still functioning well and I'm closing in on the end of the earth-work for the project.
     
  15. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    That type of damage is typical of machines working underneath bridges. It is also very possible that the rod is bent and damage is happening inside the barrel.
     
  16. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    The gland not is usually not that hard to get off. There is a peening of the barrel procedure that will make it a lot easier if it is needed.
    The bolt on the rod holding the piston on is where you will need brute force to get it off.
    When you have the new rod made up take it (soon) to the repair shop and let them reseal the gland and deal with the piston bolt.
    Depending on what the gland has for a bushing in it, running that damaged rod up and down it may cause you more grief. IMHO.
     
  17. Egetebee

    Egetebee Well-Known Member

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    I'll make some calls this week and see what come back.
    Finances are tightening up and as I'm almost done with the 'bulk' of the digging part of the job, this repair may have to take a back seat for the time being.

    I really appreciate everyone's insight and support,
    Thanks so very much and I'll keep ya'll posted,
    Cheers,
    E
     
  18. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Given the circumstances, you could find some of those spacers they put on ag equipment hydraulic cylinders to limit the stroke, or make something similar, so that damaged area doesn't reach the gland. Then take out the cylinder retract/bucket extend circuit relief from that circuit and turn it down about 1,000 PSI. Try it like that to see if it works fine for you, then either leave it if you don't use it much, or replace the seals.

    I think if you go to the trouble of pulling that cylinder apart, it will probably end up worth the money to have a new rod made for it.
     
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