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EV

Discussion in 'Trucks' started by Truck Shop, Aug 15, 2022.

  1. cfherrman

    cfherrman Senior Member

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    I was going to give up here but you made a funny. Let's try this on paper then.

    A stalled electric motor is drawing 50 amps at 480 volts, which is 24000 watts, which is 32 HP.

    It is still doing the work otherwise it would be spinning backwards.

    "Parallel hybrid systems have both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor that can both individually drive the car or both coupled up jointly giving drive. This is the most common hybrid system as of 2016."

    Idk man I give up
     
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  2. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    You can give up, or you can understand the terms and use them correctly. Power, or HP, are measured as force times distance per unit of time, if you have no distance, then there is NO POWER. A stalled electric motor is consuming power that can be measured, it is producing ZERO power.
     
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  3. colson04

    colson04 Senior Member

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    As I stated in my previous post regarding stalled motors, that energy is being converted to heat. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, but it can change forms.

    The electric motor that is operating, converts the electrical energy to mechanical energy + heat. Since the stalled motor can not overcome the load to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy, it can only convert the electrical energy to heat. In this case, the heat energy becomes measured in BTU/hr instead of HP, but that is still a measurement of power. HP is typically only referenced when discussing mechanical power, which would be when the electric motor is not stalled.
     
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  4. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Power has many different meanings. Horsepower has one meaning as described through physics. If nothing is moving, then horsepower is not being produced. Electrical force in the case of an electric motor refers to the interaction of magnetic forces between the armature and the field coils. When you apply electricity to a motor that is not allowed to rotate, current flows and creates heat to the point of burning out the insulation in the coils causing short circuits. Power is being consumed as heat.

    Apply current to a starter on an engine that is locked up and watch the battery leads. If they are loose, they will tense up and move around until the current is stopped or the starter smokes.
     
  5. colson04

    colson04 Senior Member

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    Correct @Delmer . Electric motor power is zero at zero rpms and increases as rpm increases. Direct correlation.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

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    Just finished a conversation with a ex motor winder-yes there is stall torque, but because it's not rotating
    it is not measurable torque.

    And he likes, loves people who stall loads motors-creates good work for him or use to, he is 88.
     
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  7. cfherrman

    cfherrman Senior Member

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    I give up because who cares about the nuance about produced HP and consumed HP. This is all on paper jargon.

    What I care about is performance in the real world and this in part of what the thread is originally about.

    As I have stated, the HP of a electric motor doesn't translate in the real world as HP of a diesel engine does, this the driving difference if a electric truck over a diesel truck.

    Don't believe me, I do not care.
     
  8. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    It does translate, that's why we use HP and torque to describe different things. In the real world, a 5HP diesel engine has more power than a "6.5HP" shop vac, but that doesn't make diesel more powerful than electric.
     
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  9. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    What's the torque on the 5HP diesel engine compared to the 6.5HP vacuum cleaner? How fast is the vacuum cleaner motor turning against the RPM of diesel engine.

    Why do you have to know this stuff if all you are doing is repairing and maintaining a piece of equipment? The operators only want more, bigger and faster and will never be satisfied no matter how you explain it.
     
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  10. 4x4ford

    4x4ford Well-Known Member

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  11. Plebeian

    Plebeian Senior Member

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    Janus Electric (trucks) Australia.

    A look at the battery and other parts put on a (Australian) Western Star. Then a run up the nearby highway at 95K lbs.

    https://fb.watch/f6ZvzRcSZ6/
     
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  12. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    What time of use duration? As well source of recharge power? AU is predominantly Coal or NG electrical supplies, coasts do have hydro plants when not extremely dry.
     
  13. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    What few see of this tech is vulnerability, one EMP either natural or manmade and these become piles of useless waste, same as our modern convenience cars, trucks and phones. Only the major EU and NA nations are utilizing so much of this stuff. Asia, Africa and the lesser nations are still using old school tech, will still be running.
     
  14. cfherrman

    cfherrman Senior Member

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    Pretty sweet video. I have some notes.

    Automatic transmission, I'm guessing a automatic manual type.

    Normal truck, not a tree hugging hippe look at me Tesla Prius type

    Hot swappable batteries, just fork and go. The only way it will work. I bet you will see subscription service for battery changes just like fuel cards.

    Truck was a 480 HP, and the bigger motor had a peak and continuous rating, so was this motor a 480 peak, 360 continuous?

    Hill climb seemed ok to me, definitely good enough.

    Plenty of engine brake, I bet the hp rating is also the same for brake HP.

    I'm glad he did the middle of the hill start(13:00), the low end power of a ev truck is epic

    I'm very impressed, we need to see this hot swap system with pickups
     
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  15. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    I keep hearing about leasing batteries, as if that's going to make a vehicle cheaper to own? of course it won't, it is only needed to avoid sitting waiting for a charger. You start paying every month to lease your battery, maybe you'll compare it to what a gas/diesel pickup would cost to keep running?

    I heard today that electric car companies are expecting prices to come down with increased production. Not sure how that's going to work if the battery is a big part of the cost, and the major limiting factor in EV production? Now if they convert to a practical iron/salt or other common material for batteries, that factor is out the window, but I haven't seen it yet in batteries. LED's have certainly put CFL's in the dustbin of history, but Li ion seems to be the dominant battery now and the immediate future.
     
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  16. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    So far the amount of lithium identified in the world is not enough to feed all the fever dreams of the green movement.
     
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  17. cfherrman

    cfherrman Senior Member

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    There had to be some catalyst such as new battery type or a cheaper way to make (not from scale of production) batteries to get this mainstream.

    Other than that an ev truck is very close.
     
  18. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    May need to face a new reality, may not be near enough mineral supplies to derive what has been designated as the next big people and materials haulers.

    Hydrogen promoters are still beating the drum yet as it is cannot deliver the same power per gallon or cu ft of gas as more conventional fuels and is damn near impossible to maintain in storage as leaks through every form of retention vessel.

    At some point have to wake up that we may not be able to maintain status quo as to self mobility and small volume materials moves.
     
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  19. digger doug

    digger doug Senior Member

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    Unless it's a gearless elevator or other torque motor.....
     
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  20. cfherrman

    cfherrman Senior Member

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    I try to compare the process of lifting oil and refining it to the process of mining ore and making a battery. I'm in oil so I have a decent idea of the cost and time. The extraction processes of oil and ore are probably cost and time similar, but It seems the battery building process is way higher than just end process of oil and refining.
     
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