Engine Swap Questions

[Effinay]

My 1986 International 1600 has informed me that its 6.9 diesel is no longer interested in going down the road. The reason I know this is the muffled rapping sounds coming from low in the block, and that any resemblance of oil pressure has ceased to register on the dash gauge. Having driven this truck for a few years, I have come to like it and feel its worthy of repowering. The engine(s) of choice seem to be the 93-94 Ford 7.3 IDI naturally aspirated, the later model 7.3 turbocharged, or the 7.3 Power-Strokes. Each seem to have their strengths. The early model IDI's seem to be able to virtually drop right in. Easy to maintain for old school backyard mechanics like myself. Not sure if it will give me any increase in power or speed (both sorely lacking with my old 6.9), but at least I'll be going down the road again. The turbo engines seem to need some "onboard computer stuff" which I have ZERO knowlege about, but will increase horsepower which ='s carrying 5 yds of material uphill without having to downshift to 3-low. Then there's the late model powerstrokes that I'm told I have no business trying to fiddle with, replacement parts (injectors etc) very expensive, not to mention more "computer stuff", AND they're expensive to buy! I'm leaning more toward the turbo cuz they seem to be plentiful and reasonably priced. As i'm gathering info/knowlege about this project I've been told there may be some challenges with sensors, as well as problems with the oil cooler. Has anybody that has done this job before able to share their wisdom on engine selection, sensor issues, and what's the deal with the oil cooler? Many thanks ....

 

[monster76]

i would drop in a 7.3 idi with a a turbo setup and a few tweaks to the injection system and it will be light years ahead of what you have now and be basically a bolt in

 

[05rammer]

I would think a mechanical dt466 would work.

 

[simonsrplant]

I'll hide before I say this...
Cat 3208

 

[Delmer]

I would think a mechanical dt466 would work.

That would be the best choice IMHO, but at least twice the cost of a 7.3 and I couldn't tell you if it would mate to the same transmission either.

 

[capt_met]

I agree with the turbo idi engine.

 

[lantraxco]

I won't hide, lol, I can handle flames... the 3208 is a great combination grenade/boat anchor. The Ford V8's are not much better and the DT466 while it was a good engine in it's day, is old news. Go Cummins inline six with a mechanical pump, you'll never regret it.

 

[Effinay]

Thanks everyone for their input on this. After searching for a 7.3 in good condition that was reasonably priced (daunting task in itself), I've been recommended to consider th Cummins ISB. Lantraxco got it right. At 190 hp, and I'm told they have torque like you read about, it seemsthe choice is clear. I'm going shopping for a Cummins! Wish me luck......

 

[Knepptune]

If you could get a 3208 to fit that'd be my choice.

I've never understood the love affair with cummins 6bt or 6ct. Seams like every one I've had to work on requires chasing leaks from one end to the other. I swear I spend 4 hours on each of our cummins for every one hour one the 3208s. One other thing, that 3208 will out start anything out there. If it turns over, it will start. Definitely can't say that about any cummins I've been around.

 

[Delmer]

Why the ISB, isn't that electronic? I think you want an inline pump instead.

 

[lantraxco]

You can get the 12 valve "B" series 5.9L mechanical, the 24 valve ISB electronic 5.9, or the 6.7 Liter ISB. My preference would be a 96, 97, or 98 5.9 liter "6BT" at 215 hp stock, with the inline pump. Boost it a bit with some injectors and an aftermarket fuel ramp for the pump, add an exhaust brake and a pyrometer. But that's just me.

My experience with the 3208 versus Cummins is exactly opposite of Knepptune's, the little 6BT's I've been around just don't leak until they get 300,000 or more, most of the 3208's I've seen in service grenade before getting anywhere near that. Fuel mileage is ridiculously better with the Cummins. As for cold starting, the inline Bosch pump used in the 96-98 12 valves is the key, along with the air heater. On the other hand, it just doesn't get near as cold here in the Northwest as it does where you guys live, so I can only attest to temps in the teens.

 

[ben46a]

Your best bet is to find a scool bus with the desired engine, then you have all the parts, and they're usually cheap and pretty well maintained.

 

[Knepptune]

I will say almost all my experience is with cranes. A crane sits and idles 5 hrs out of every eight. The engine works hard running to the jobsite then isn't under any real load the rest of the day. I think the biggest problem with the 3208 is that people expected 10.4L of power from them. You won't get that. They are big and heavy for the power output.

But in a crane idling away they are by far my favorite engine. Sip fuel compared to cummins. Literally double hours per gallon. Seems like cummins literally vibrate apart in those situations. That's why I don't like cummins. Worked on to many of those oil soaked things.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Every time I idled a 3208 for a few hours (fire truck application) it would spew so much whitish blue fuel smoke on moving its self down the road that it would fog a whole block. I always turned it off whenever I could because I figured it couldn't be any good for it. Maybe they did not all do that? Maybe it was the higher HP ones that did? Also are the front springs up to that heavy beast?

I agree the Cummins is a shaky rattly noisy thing but I am with the others on that it would probably be the best choice except I would not turn it up, but leave it stock in the 190-220 HP range. Way better than the 6.9 but not asking to melt itself down. It will definitely burn less fuel than the 3208 and is much better supported. I agree with the school bus idea, especially if you need an air compressor or any truck-type accessories. A DT360 would be OK if one landed in your lap also.

I would not consider an IDI at this point. It is my opinion that 90% of them have cavitation or will develop it very soon. Too risky. 7.3 Powerstroke probably out, too risky of expensive failure with injectors and the like.

Just some thoughts. Local market conditions can determine

 

[RonG]

I have always had a lot of respect for Internationals engine program but by todays standards they may be lacking in some areas but in their day they could hold their own.I didn't like the V8 diesel that ford used in any flavor,they stunk,literally,they would take your breath away just standing downwind of them idling.They seemed to be a dog on the highway too,at least the earlier ones,just a bunch of rattling up front so you could not hear each other talking.That 3208 and the version that ford used in their trucks should have had a warning about the clouds of smoke from a cold start,you wondered if EPA would have approved them if they had been in existence at that time,another choking spell.If Mack could build a clean engine in those days why couldn't the other guys?Ron G

 

[Birken Vogt]

Actually the later 3208s came with a sticker on the valve cover stating that the fine had already been paid to the EPA for excessive pollution. I guess Cat thought that it was cheaper to keep making them for a while and paying the fines than to come up with a replacement too soon.

Don't get me wrong, I would still rather have a 3208 than any of its replacements, the 3116, 3126 or C7 but it is my contention that they are just too old to be using as a repower, 20 years after they were dropped for road use. I really liked them for operating characteristics, smooth, quiet, and both able to lug down and rev out without too much trouble, but those days are gone and they used too much fuel.

They were much better than their competitor the 8.2 Detroit, now those things would make your eyes water.

 

[Mobiltech]

The big problem with 3208's smoking was fuel timing. If you advanced the timing a bit from pin to pin factory setting a lot of the smoke when cold could be eliminated. I fixed many of the missing popping smoking cold problems with a little timing advance.

 

[caterpillarmech]

My dad had an 84 F250 with a 6.9. 500,000 + miles on it. Bed sides flopped. Had to use bungee cords to hold the bed sides to the tail gate. But, Man what an engine. That was one hell of an oil filed truck. I drove it many a mile off road chasing my dads trencher. Never let us down until it was finally deemed to old by management. I think it is still parked at the company yard.
I second the cummins school bus idea. That way you have the transmission, and all of the accessories.

 

[Effinay]

Thanks everybody for the continued input of my question.....The update is I'm leaning more toward the International DT466. I've got 3 or 4 to choose from, still in trucks so I can hear/see them run and then make a choice. Guy tells me after making my selection they will separate it from the transmission, cut the chassis, and give me the whole shootin' match for around 2 grand. I'm thinking this sounds good to me cuz it gives me all the motormounts/crossmembers I might need, plus, starter motor, water pump, alternator, (not sure about a radiator), and the satisfaction of hearing it start and run. Not exactly sure of mileage on these prospects either. Other than the obvious oil leaks, compromised coolant, or coffee colored crankcase oil, would anybody be able to offer recommendations for things to look and listen for before I make an offer on one of these? Thanks again and regards to everyone for their input and help making this decision.

 

[chevota84]

7.3 idi turbo would be the easiest, exact replacement for a 6.9. They only make 10 more hp than an n/a 7.3 though. 6bt's are plentiful and cheap.