Eng. oil change interval 500hrs...... seems a bit long.

[Permafrost-ed]

(Cat 304) Manual says 500hr engine oil change interval.

I realize this is fairly black and white but.....It also says says to grease the bucket linkages every 50hrs. I doubt anyone here greases every 50hrs I know I do it every 8-10hrs (daily) Manual also seems to have some other rather long greasing intervals for other components.

I believe manufactures are under pressure from various groups (marketing and environmental just to name 2) to extend service intervals both to save money and petroleum resources etc.

Long story short...... What do you all change eng. oil at hrs wise?

 

[AndrewC]

It seems a lot of manufactures are extending their oil change intervals. I think the reason may be marketing more than anything. At a very large rental company they said change engine oil at 1000 hrs. Even though they ran synthetic that oil came out like tar. Our company says 300hr but I have seen companies that do it every 200hrs when you take apart the engine it is clean which is incredible but the operators were responsible for doing engine oil changes and of course that can change operator to operator. As for greasing I have always liked the idea of greasing the machine at night then its ready first thing in the morning. There are some companies around here that tell their operators to grease their bucket linkage every 4 hours.

 

[John C.]

Oil change intervals is a pretty complicated and controversial subject. With the advanced oils and higher capacity systems used in engines today you probably can extend oil changes past the old standard of 250. The issue is at what point does the oil start to loose one of its abilities to lubricate, cool and clean. Generally you don't know unless you have regularly scheduled oil samples analyzed. Short of doing that you will have to follow the manufacturers recommendations for oil and change intervals.

I used to change engine oil every 2,500 to 3,000 miles on my personal cars and trucks. I've run company trucks at 5,000 mile changes and put over 200,000 miles on them with no problems. Now I change my stuff at 5,000. On the same token I've seen skid steers on 500 hour changes freeze up engines in less than 1,500 hours. All I can say is do what makes the best monetary sense to you.

Good Luck

 

[dsgsr]

I think the long oil change intervals only makes the manufacture more $$ selling you engines. Ask the Mechanic's that you trust, they'll all tell you to change more often. I change my diesel engines every 200 hrs. using synthetic oils.

David

 

[CM1995]

(Cat 304)

Long story short...... What do you all change eng. oil at hrs wise?

250 hours on all heavy iron, 100 hours on skid steers and mini-ex's.

4K miles on diesel pickups and med. trucks. When I was running tandem and tri-axle dumps the oil was changed at 5K miles.

Greasing every 8 hours or more depending on the job and material being moved. Some material has more fine and sandy particles that eat grease quicker than other material.

My philosophy is it's cheap insurance but I don't have a large fleet of equipment or trade machines often.

 

[grandpa]

When you buy that new Ford to replace the one you wrecked CM, the owners manuel says change at 7000 miles

 

[CM1995]

When you buy that new Ford to replace the one you wrecked CM, the owners manuel says change at 7000 miles

lol...

:tong

 

[Permafrost-ed]

250 hours on all heavy iron, 100 hours on skid steers and mini-ex's.

4K miles on diesel pickups and med. trucks. When I was running tandem and tri-axle dumps the oil was changed at 5K miles.

Greasing every 8 hours or more depending on the job and material being moved. Some material has more fine and sandy particles that eat grease quicker than other material.

My philosophy is it's cheap insurance but I don't have a large fleet of equipment or trade machines often.

I remember guys back in the 80's saying "ah oil's cheap let her leak" when referring to not getting around to fixing oil leaks! Funny stuff. Now adays oil is indeed a lot cheaper than engine rebuilds but not as cheap as it once was.

I ran a Zaxis 200 with 15000hrs that had 500hr eng oil change intervals its whole life and it ran great. Our family's old UH07 is up around 18000hrs and we change the oil every 300hrs. After seeing the Zaxis I thought I might extend the UHO to 500hr intervals but felt sorry for the old girl and did the 300 again! I love that old macine.

I think 100hrs on a mini might be a bit soon to be cost affective. Good for the machine but I'm looking for balance between perfection and cost. I was surprised it took 6.5L of oil, big sump for such a small engine.

Might send some of the old oil for analysis.

I think Ill run this oil for 250hrs and have it tested.

Thanks for all the responses lads.

 

[Nige]

You're right to be suspicious about oil change intervals, there are more variables to it than you can shake a stick at. Just one comment about oil sampling, one sample alone is not going to give you much other than a snapshot of the moment in time when the sample was drained. You really need a shed-load of samples to establish trends. An oil analysis laboratory will tell you that they can tell everything about your oil from one sample, I don't believe them.

For example if we wanted to go from 250 to 500 hours on oil changes we would probably take a couple of thousand hours of sample data from 250 hour changes as our baseline, then we would extend the oil change period to say 300 hours and sample oil at 100 & 200 hours as well so we can see how the oil condition is trending before draining at 300. Once we'd run 300-hour changes for a while then we'd go to 350, then 400, then etc, etc, until we reached our new interval. We'd not be looking at just the wear element analysis of the oil but also its lubricating qualities and the state of the additive package.

Oil quality, altitude above sea level, & the type of fuel being used can affect oil condition greatly. For example what works at sea level does not work at 10,000ft I can tell you.

What manufacturers are under pressure is to provide estimates of "whole life costs" including maintenance versus their competitors - extending maintenance intervals (and including the cost of the material used for the maintenance) is one way of reducing whole life machine costs, nothing to do with environmetal issues as far as I know.

 

[Permafrost-ed]

You're right to be suspicious about oil change intervals, there are more variables to it than you can shake a stick at. Just one comment about oil sampling, one sample alone is not going to give you much other than a snapshot of the moment in time when the sample was drained. You really need a shed-load of samples to establish trends. An oil analysis laboratory will tell you that they can tell everything about your oil from one sample, I don't believe them.

For example if we wanted to go from 250 to 500 hours on oil changes we would probably take a couple of thousand hours of sample data from 250 hour changes as our baseline, then we would extend the oil change period to say 300 hours and sample oil at 100 & 200 hours as well so we can see how the oil condition is trending before draining at 300. Once we'd run 300-hour changes for a while then we'd go to 350, then 400, then etc, etc, until we reached our new interval. We'd not be looking at just the wear element analysis of the oil but also its lubricating qualities and the state of the additive package.

Oil quality, altitude above sea level, & the type of fuel being used can affect oil condition greatly. For example what works at sea level does not work at 10,000ft I can tell you.

What manufacturers are under pressure is to provide estimates of "whole life costs" including maintenance versus their competitors - extending maintenance intervals (and including the cost of the material used for the maintenance) is one way of reducing whole life machine costs, nothing to do with environmetal issues as far as I know.

All very good points, I hadn't thought of multiple samples forming a baseline but it makes a lot of sense now that you explain it. I run Cat or Donaldson filters and Shell Rotella 15w40 and am at seal level give or take 100'.
On a realistic scale I can see the owners of the really big machines saving tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of dollars over the lifespan of a machine by servicing it at just the right times. Me and my puny little 5 ton machine might be getting a bit carried away but whatever, those big machines also earn a lot more money per hr. than I do. LOL.

PS- great sig line.

 

[Nige]

The fleet of equipment I look after uses somewhere around 40,000 gallons of engine oil per year. If I can reduce that by 20% it is significant. There are places where money can be saved though. e.g we've got truck rear axle oil from a life of 2000 hours according to the manual to 9,000 hours, so one oil change now takes us to component replacement @ 18,000 hours instead of 8 changes as per the manual. That saves 200 gallons of oil per change x 7 changes x 32 trucks (but will soon be 57 trucks) = 44,800 gallons over about 3 years...that's just one system.....

My boss has a good line he often trots out when we're mulling over possible courses of action "What would you do if it was your little Yellow Tractor?" In your case my reply would be "I'm going to change the oil every 250 hours and f**k the manual" - let's face it you're not greasing it every 50 hours like the manual says are you..?

Also worth remembering that an Operation & Maintenance Manual is only a guideline. When designing it the manufacturer tries to make "one size fits all" and often falls well short of what serves a particular user best in his specific circumstances.

Have you investigated the use of a 10W/30 oil in your climate conditions..? I would've thought that 15W/40 was a bit heavy, especially when it's really cold

 

[oldequip]

If the oil pours out the oil pan darker then when it was poured out the jug obviously it's catching something? Oil itself catches what the filter won't... Ponder in that....

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[melli]

Over the life of my machine...haha...thankfully, I don't have a fleet and the expenses to go with it. I am somewhere around 100-150hrs per Oil Change (OC). I'll change the filter every second OC. At $30 - $40 per OC, it isn't a huge expense, and my BC 331 is easy to change the oil...wish cars had a hose to drain the block, although my Kubota engine has a filter that guarantees spillage upon removal.

I have a lot of starts for those hundred hours, so I like my oil 'liquid' as possible 10W30.

Permafrost - you got me thinking about a block heater...although it is balmy down here, having morning temps around 0C, I worry about startup...I went on bobtheoilguy to see what a good interval is, and oil analysis seems to be the routine to figuring out OCI. I've just been too lazy to look into it.

 

[Bumpsteer]

The friend that farms my property bought a new CIH combine this year, recommended oil change interval is 500hrs.

Ed

 

[Ryanrb25]

I do 500 Hour intervals for most of our machines...I've serviced our bobcat skid steers and diggers (16 of them) from brand new 5 years ago, some having upwards of 3000-4000 Hours now and they never burn oil, Never had any issues. Same with our Trucks and Big diggers.

 

[Permafrost-ed]

I do 500 Hour intervals for most of our machines...I've serviced our bobcat skid steers and diggers (16 of them) from brand new 5 years ago, some having upwards of 3000-4000 Hours now and they never burn oil, Never had any issues. Same with our Trucks and Big diggers.

Nice, good to hear.... I guess the oil lasts longer running upside down huh?! (joke

 

[CRAFT]

Nice, good to hear.... I guess the oil lasts longer running upside down huh?! (joke

Yah right ! …LOL …… but seriously … old school rule of thumb we used was every 250hrs, my old school Cat 312 says 250hrs …. the new school Cat says 500hrs BUT it takes almost twice the amount of oil in the pan to fill … my new school Bcat Skid says 500hrs as well, were as my old school JD was 250 …… the Bcat too has a way bigger oil capacity than my buddies old 863 ….. Hmmmm I guess they figure there's more oil to get dirty so it'll cut down on u'r sevice intervals ……
A couple other things you might consider is how many hrs a year do put on ?? … maybe seasonal changes will work better for you ?? …. and as all manuals say " in dusty or harder conditions change more frequently " even my Dodge book says that, couldn't believe what I read in there, they say 12,000km normal use and 10,000km severe duty …. WOW ….. I have now 3,000hrs on my Bcat, do oil at 500hrs, as you I am a Donaldson fan too, and I use the Delo 400 full synthetic 5w-40 readily available where you are too ………… Ohhhh CRAP ! … which reminds me I gotta change oil in the Bcat today ! ……... Cheers !

 

[yucca]

I use a few different tools to extend oil changes beyond the Cat L&M guidelines. Largest capacity oil sumps, bypass filtration, quality CJ-4 oil, consistent trend oil analysis.

 

[RobVG]

Yah right ! …LOL …… but seriously … old school rule of thumb we used was every 250hrs

I remember 20 years ago all our excavators went 250. Cats and Komatsu anyways. I don't know what the book said but we changed the oil in the Mack's ever 10k miles. Factory recommended interval on our Cat C12's and C15's is 15k.

PS It wouldn't surprise me if the EPA had something to do with the longer intervals.

 

[CRAFT]

I remember 20 years ago all our excavators went 250. Cats and Komatsu anyways. I don't know what the book said but we changed the oil in the Mack's ever 10k miles. Factory recommended interval on our Cat C12's and C15's is 15k.

PS It wouldn't surprise me if the EPA had something to do with the longer intervals.

I still either go seasonal or 250hrs on the older Cat excav which ever comes first, in the days of hauling logs we went 250hrs too, didn't matter which truck or motor I had…. 500hp Mack, 425hp 3406 Cat, 475hp twin-turbo Cummins BC-3, 475 Jimmy …. all got treated the same. Very little hwy miles so we went with the hr meter and not the odometer.
Wow ! … does that bring back memories ! …… cheers