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Endurant/Eaton automated transmissions

cfherrman

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As intriguing as that could be, I don't think you could shift the auxiliary unless you could lock up the torque converter and hold the gear. Maybe the hold button does that on the newer ones?

They are rather easy to shift, just like a regular 5x4 shifting without the clutch

There's tons of military trucks with an auto and an aux, my uncle drove one for years
 

CM1995

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Maintenance Id say is less then an allison. Linehaul oil change is 750,000miles. Less for vocational.
Initial cost is less. Rebuilding one/ buying a replacement is less then an allison.
Big issue in the medium duty petes with allisons (dump trucks and grain trucks) is the engine fan running constant to try to get rid of all the heat the allison makes. No issues like that with an autoshift.
Warranty is better too as you don't get kicked between a Peterbilt shop and an Allison shop, with each saying its the others issue. All eaton problems get warrantied at the truck OEM shop.

Thanks for the info, very informative.

Had a 2003 International 7400 with a C13 Cat and Allison transmission. Unfortunately I know all about the dealer saying it's the engine, the engine saying it's the transmission and around and around we go. Extremely frustrating when you have a truck you can't use and a payment that comes like clockwork.

How much cheaper are they compared to an Allison? I haven't really priced heavy trucks in several years.

We don't put a ton of mile on a dump truck so maintenance with either transmission would be on a calendar instead of mileage like we do for our small engines and 84" compactor.
 

Acoals

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How much cheaper are they compared to an Allison? I haven't really priced heavy trucks in several years.

I just talked with the Mack salesman a few weeks ago, he said the Mack M drive or whatever its called (AMT) is the cheapest. An 8LL would be a "couple thousand more" and an Allison was about 10 or 12k higher.

That is pretty anecdotal, I wasn't actually pricing, he was just ballparking.

Overall he said a Wisconsin quad would be 245K and up.
 

Truck Shop

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I will reload this here--because certain people need to read it. From top to bottom.
Yes the DT12 WILL PERFORM WHAT IS CALLED A POWER LAUNCH AT 1,200 RPM.
plus is has a mode for spreading blacktop, imagine that.
*
 

CM1995

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I just talked with the Mack salesman a few weeks ago, he said the Mack M drive or whatever its called (AMT) is the cheapest. An 8LL would be a "couple thousand more" and an Allison was about 10 or 12k higher.

That is pretty anecdotal, I wasn't actually pricing, he was just ballparking.

Overall he said a Wisconsin quad would be 245K and up.

I liked the Macks I've owned, they were trouble free but they were also new at the time. That's a considerable cost difference between an M drive and Allison.

Is that $245K before FET? New tri-axles are running $270K +/- OTD with FET.
 

Acoals

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I liked the Macks I've owned, they were trouble free but they were also new at the time. That's a considerable cost difference between an M drive and Allison.

Is that $245K before FET? New tri-axles are running $270K +/- OTD with FET.

I don't know about FET, the salesman was much more serious about me buying a brand new dump than I was. You know how those guys are always "reaching out". I was just being curious while he was on the phone.
 

cfherrman

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I will reload this here--because certain people need to read it. From top to bottom.
Yes the DT12 WILL PERFORM WHAT IS CALLED A POWER LAUNCH AT 1,200 RPM.
plus is has a mode for spreading blacktop, imagine that.
*


Power launch at 0 boost, way better than a manual though, will keep you from breaking things
 

Shimmy1

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Power launch at 0 boost, way better than a manual though, will keep you from breaking things

Please don't take this the wrong way, but how much real world experience do you have driving manual transmissions in your world? By that, if you've spent 20 years in Allisons with a smattering of manuals, I feel you're being a bit assumptive on the real capabilities of a manual.

Now, if you were running manuals for 10 years, and now have run Allisons for 10 or more years and have this opinion, that's a totally different story.
 

Acoals

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All this talk about "boosted launches" and other such related off road abuse, is just that; abuse. It's brutal on a truck. CF might "have never broken anything on an auto", but I have, and I have seen plenty of carnage on automatic trucks. I got my start at 18 driving mixers. Back at that time everybody wasn't using pumps, and the concrete masons thought that a 6x6 mixer was roughly equivalent to a dozer with a barrel on it. At 18, it wasn't my truck and I was generally happy to oblige.

A dump truck shouldn't generally be doing all sorts of off roading and mud bogging, and the new AMT's, if they are what TS says, should probably do just fine in that application. The auto dumps I have seen around here don't really impress me off road. Without low range they wind up really being a slug off road, always having to boost way up with everything slipping and getting hot in the trans. The typical driver solution is to make a run at everything. The lack of low range really translates into a lack of control.

For a mixer though, I wouldn't have anything but an auto. All you do with a mixer is creep back and forth, inches at a time. The AMT might work, but I can't imagine it working well. A torque converter does have its place.

I would like a crack at driving a dump with one of those Detroit AMT's though . . .
 

CM1995

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A dump truck shouldn't generally be doing all sorts of off roading and mud bogging, and the new AMT's, if they are what TS says, should probably do just fine in that application. The auto dumps I have seen around here don't really impress me off road. Without low range they wind up really being a slug off road, always having to boost way up with everything slipping and getting hot in the trans. The typical driver solution is to make a run at everything. The lack of low range really translates into a lack of control.

The few Allison dumps I've owned and the current old L9000 with 4sp auto have been great off road dump trucks hence the reason I want another one. Even our 30 year old L9000 has great low gearing and is great for on-site hauling with no overheating.

We have two 18 year old kids that we can put in the L9000 and let them ease across the jobsite all day hauling dirt. The truck is so low geared and underpowered coupled with heavy running gear it's almost bullet proof if you keep the cowboy'ing at bay.

Actually hauled 10 loads out last week -

IMG_8124.jpeg

I took a few rounds on site yesterday. To be honest I really like the old girl.

IMG_8144.jpeg

Wonder how a Detroit and one of those Detroit automated trans would do under the hood... :D
 

crane operator

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The few Allison dumps I've owned and the current old L9000 with 4sp auto have been great off road dump trucks hence the reason I want another one. Even our 30 year old L9000 has great low gearing and is great for on-site hauling with no overheating.

We have two 18 year old kids that we can put in the L9000 and let them ease across the jobsite all day hauling dirt. The truck is so low geared and underpowered coupled with heavy running gear it's almost bullet proof if you keep the cowboy'ing at bay.

Actually hauled 10 loads out last week -

View attachment 329250

I took a few rounds on site yesterday. To be honest I really like the old girl.

View attachment 329251

Wonder how a Detroit and one of those Detroit automated trans would do under the hood... :D
I have always liked the visibility out of the old ford cabs. Small pillar and great big aquarium windshield.

Good old painted steel doors hold up well in the muck and mud compared with the plastic newer ones, I actually prefer that over our nicer carpeted trucks. Its just easier to knock the mud off the steel doors. Its the worst in the quarry after a rain. Get that slurry ground into the carpet and you've got a mess.

I doubt anything will hold up as well in your use. I see yours even has a jake, that's rare to have in a l10 with allison.
 

Truck Shop

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The major point missed in all of this which I tried to point out earlier.
The DD15 coupled with a DT12 VT transmission is a power/torque to gear ratio matched unit.
The amount of torque delivered at 975 rpm with a DD15 spec'd at 505 HP is 1,750 Ft Lbs
and stays on a plane all the way to governed rpm range. Even in lower hp ratings it still produces
1550 torque at 975 rpm, the engine idles at 700. It's mass torque on demand. If this
combination with all the custom programing available doesn't get the job done,
then there is dysfunctional people behind the wheel.
*
 

lumberjack

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@Truck Shop , I assume the DT12vt doesn't have live PTO?


My little Allison hook lift is handy like a shirt pocket. I need to get a short container and a flatbed, but I haven't made that a priority in the going on 7 years I've had the hoist.

1736540851887.jpeg
 

CM1995

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A hook lift is handier than a shirt pocket.

Had a single axle Hino with a hook on it for 10-15 yard cans in a roll off business I was partners in.
 

CM1995

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I have always liked the visibility out of the old ford cabs. Small pillar and great big aquarium windshield.

Good old painted steel doors hold up well in the muck and mud compared with the plastic newer ones, I actually prefer that over our nicer carpeted trucks. Its just easier to knock the mud off the steel doors. Its the worst in the quarry after a rain. Get that slurry ground into the carpet and you've got a mess.

I doubt anything will hold up as well in your use. I see yours even has a jake, that's rare to have in a l10 with allison.

Really enjoy driving the ol' girl other than being slow and underpowered on the road. The cab is one of the best I've driven from International 4700 and 4300's, Hino's and Mack Granites.

It's just a well built, tough old truck.
 

Truck Shop

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I assume the DT12vt doesn't have live PTO?
The DT12 has two places for PTO mounting, one at front bottom and one at right rear.
As far as Live ability you would need to ask Freightliner on that issue. But I think it is
capable. In video there is a large rear cover that is removed for a rear drive, not shown.
*
 

Acoals

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My ('92) Ford cab is pretty good, but I do like the old R model cabs better.
 

Tyler d4c

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Nope---not many know how to drive those so Allison needs to get off their ass and build
a 22. Which leads to the question--just how many on here can drive a twin gear box?
Only a hand full I'm guessing.
Id give it a go may have grindy sounds but id make it either to the destination or along the road
 
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