1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

DW20's

Discussion in 'Scrapers' started by X Quad Operator, May 9, 2012.

  1. X Quad Operator

    X Quad Operator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Washington St
    Good morning everyone. I've got a question, the question is did Caterpillar put the Hydrolic front end lifts on the DW20's, like they did on the 666's? I have a photo of a DW20 I ran in 1962 that shows the hydroilc cylinder right behind the seat on the left side of the seat. I had just become a Union member then, what I remember is only the rams, there was no controls that I could see. Of course I was just starting out and the scrapers were new to me. I guess the question here is, is there any old timers out there that ran the DW20's that had the front end lift on it, and tell us how everything worked. The first 666's I ran were the 9 speed models I don't remember them having the front end lifts on them, but I do remember the B model 666's having them and I've worked around a lot of 666's in my life time. McCoy was one of the contractors and he had a !%*! pot load of them, another was Cassidy-Vaerlla in the 70's they had five 666's the scrapers had been stretched 22 inches and had 4' side boards and it took 5 D9's to get a heaped load and Kassidy-Varella wasn't afraid to put the power behind you. This question goes out to everyone World wide.




    Mike Nebergall
     
  2. Dutchman

    Dutchman Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    wyo
    Ive run DW20's and 630B's and I have no clue what your talking about.
     
  3. lpnt65

    lpnt65 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    151
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Australia
    do you mean hydraulic shock absorbers, if thats what you mean early Dw 20s only had pivot front axle it was anchored back to central point in centre of tractor but no shock absorbers as for cylinder by the seat maybe they were short of room in workshop and stored it beside yo seat
     
  4. heosmitther

    heosmitther Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    northern california
    Can someone please help me? Using a backhoe I have to dig a 50ft trench 4ft deep but the top 3 ft of the trench needs to slope at 1.5 to 1 ratio I understand the ratio that the trench must go out 1 1/2 feet for every 1 foot it drops for the top 3 ft what I don't understand is how am I supose to do this with a backhoe if its not obvious Im new to being a heavy equipment operator I have dug many flat botton trenches but never with sloping sides. Do I dig the 4ft down flat bottom then come up a foot and dig a 1 1/2 shelf into the side of the trench and repeat this until Im at ground level then knock the lips off with the bucket to acheive a slope? does the pivot point of my backhoe stay in the center the entire time or do move it side to side will I be able to make a 1.5 to 1 slope on a 4ft trench staying centered ? please if anyone can explain to me the procedure I need to use to dig this trench I would be forever grateful to them my very job depends on it. thank you
     
  5. X Quad Operator

    X Quad Operator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Washington St
    Goodmorning Dutchman, The Question I'm asking about the front end lifts on a DW20, I have a picture on a previous question on the fourm, the picture might still be on this website, Allis-Chalmers 562's or TTSS40's, I was wondering if Caterpillar had put a hydrolic front end lift on the DW20 tractors? was it a special order,? this enabeling the operator to lift the front tires off the ground, the operator having to turn makinmg him use the tractors turning brakes to turn. I still can't figure out how to put photos on the forum, I wish I could I have a !&*# pot load of photos that I think everybody would enjoy. If you can find the photos look at the picture of me loading the DW20, there's a old D9-18A, and a D8-15A pushing me, look on the left hand side of the seat you will see a Hydrolic ram connected right at the bottom of the gooseneck. That ram looks like it might of been factory. Let me know what you think, Dutchman. Mike Nebergall.
     
  6. Dutchman

    Dutchman Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    wyo
    Yea Quad, I couldn't tell you. The 20's I ran were 88E's with 482 scrapers. The cutting brakes worked pretty good for what i needed them to do. I know the ones I ran did not have a hydraulic lift on the front. They did have any hyd nothing on them. We had D8H's for push cats. No D9's. These old scrapers ran good on haul roads that were hard. But with the scraper tires tracking outside the tractor tires it was pretty tough in sand almost like pulling teeth. If you find out more about what your looking for, let me know. Sorry I could'nt help.
     
  7. lpnt65

    lpnt65 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    151
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Australia
    i am Just wondering if you saw a DW20 with the nose of machine off the ground,the old one we had was inclined when on tight dry clay to wind it self up on rear axe and lift the nose up , every one said tha'ts the way to break rear axle but over thousands of hours we never broke any rear axle .it often broke the front end spring on front axle. this we put down to having front off ground and operator slapping his foot on clutch a then this took drive off rear wheels and thumped the front down, which we reckoned broke the spring the operators were warned against the practice sometimes it just happened so quickly , of course my assumption is that this is what you are asking about , different country different terminology,
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2012
  8. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    I have some old sales brochures from a Cat dealer in the Dulles Washington area, circa early 60's that mentions the weight transfer cylinders you mention. I'll try and dig it up and see what the name was they gave them. These were all DW20 F or G models with extra capacity bowls that I think had been on a dam job and were probably 5 years old or less at the time. The ad gives the serial numbers so be patient, and stay tuned!
    Now if I can just figure out our scanner we'll really have something!


    Alan
     
  9. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    They Exist....

    OK.. the dealer was Stone Machinery Co. in Walla Walla, Washington, with dealerships in Pendleton and The Dalles, Oregon as well. The DW20G's were listed as 88E1576, 1578, 1579, 1580 and 1581. DW20G series with #27 CCU and what was called TRACTIONAIDERS, pulling Cat 482 scrapers. Sold NEW in 1960. Located at the time in Pendleton, Oregon.

    Picture taken from the right front, shows a twin air cleaner DW20 with scraper, big radiator and big straight stack, with large spill boards added to the scraper.
    It clearly shows the hydraulic cylinder on the hitch, with the barrel mounted towards the tractor and the cylinder end at the gooseneck pivot. I believe these would be mounted in pairs, one on each side of the hitch. Similar to the 3 axle 600 series.
    If I can get the scanner to work well enough, I'll post pics here soon.
    I hope this helps!

    Alan
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  10. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    X-Quad, if you really get stuck with the photo posting, you could always email me the pictures and I'll post them for you. Some of these forums can be tricky to post pix to, not that this one is that tough.
    If you have them stored on your computer, add them as an attachment and email them to me. I'd be glad to help. Drop me a private message and I'll see what can be done!

    I wonder if Stone is still in business? Might not be that far from you.. some dealers keep their brochures on out of production models even today for reference.....

    Alan
     
  11. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
  12. X Quad Operator

    X Quad Operator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Washington St
    Good morning, alan627b can you shoot me a private message, I have a large amount of Caterpillar brouchers and I also have a DW20 (Series G) Long Haul Scraper. Get in touch with me. Mike Nebergall.
     
  13. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    Message sent! Check your messages Mike!
     
  14. durtmvr

    durtmvr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    Occupation:
    Currently Finish Blade Operator, Previously Genera
    Location:
    Sunny and Frikin HOT Arizona
    I ran a spread of DW20s updated with Cummins engines about 15 years ago. He had 7 of them. NONE of them had front end lifts like the 666s.
     
  15. X Quad Operator

    X Quad Operator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Washington St
    Good morning durtmvr, what horse power were the Cumming motors? I'll bet that was hard to get use to at first, I'm talking about the difference in sound between the quieter Caterpillar motors, verses the noisier Cumming diesel motors. You know, ACI in southern California changed their motors in there spread of 660's they replaced them with I think V-16's, My buddy said it was a head turner hearing the sound of the GMC diesels passing in a yellow Caterpillar 660. I've been retired now 6 years, and I live in a farming community in Washington State, but I still miss not being able to drive by a grading job and enjoy see dirt falling over the top of the sideboards, and getting the occasional glimpse of a couple of now days D10's pushing scrapers in a canyon cleanout, or at the edge of a hillside cut. You have any pictures of the transformation of the DW20's motors I'd sure like to see one. Mike Nebergall
     
  16. catken

    catken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    central Nebraska
    630's had weight transfer cyls. I had 2 of them
     
  17. X Quad Operator

    X Quad Operator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Washington St
    Hi alan627b, I happed to run across this forum article, where I asked about the hydraulic front lifts on the DW20's. Your reply was you had a brochure on the 5 DW20's 88E1576, 78, 79, 80, and 88E1581. I'm wondering if there would be away for me to get a copy of that brochure, from you, for my brochure collection, of that vintage of scrapers. I loved running the DW20's and the DW21's. There's a DW21 as you enter Walla Walla, Washington, sitting not to far off of the freeway, I can't take my eyes off of it every time I drive by it. there's also a Euclid S-7 scraper out of Lewiston, Idaho, its the same thing all over again, I can't take my eyes off of driving by. Sure would like to talk to you on the phone sometime, Alan. Mike Nebergall
     
  18. Tvan

    Tvan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Occupation:
    Supervision now Days
    Location:
    Alaska
    DW20's & weight transfer cyls

    I think just the late Model 88E Dw20's with the Big Cans was the only 20s that had these, I could very well be wrong, all the years I ran them in Texas and NM those was the only ones I knew about.
     
  19. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    Bringing this thread back from the dead, the DW20s in question had a device like the later 630-666 models .
    This old brochure calls them Tractionaiders, which I'd guess was their trade name.
     
  20. alan627b

    alan627b Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    785
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Operator
    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    Mike, if you are still alive and well, drop me a line at my email address.
    Alan627b@live.com
    I could always make a photocopy for you, sorry for the delay I've not been on the forums much in recent years.
    Alan