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ductile iron parts
- Thread starter twr
- Start date
RayF
Senior Member
I'm nor familiar with that particular wire.If it has iron in it you can be pretty sure it will go hard and not machinable. I do a lot of cast iron bores and I normally sleeve them or use a Nickel/Copper MIG welding wire. (no iron) Its expensive but absolutely no hard spots.
jcb jeff
Senior Member
Hi Ray
You are correct about the cost of nickel/copper almost fell off my chair i did speak to one welding wire company here in the uk that recommended possible use of stainless steel wire 304 /307 as an option i guess it would be a case of finding a scrap casting and giving it a try with may be a double machine cut first then bore weld .Thoughts please
jeff
You are correct about the cost of nickel/copper almost fell off my chair i did speak to one welding wire company here in the uk that recommended possible use of stainless steel wire 304 /307 as an option i guess it would be a case of finding a scrap casting and giving it a try with may be a double machine cut first then bore weld .Thoughts please
jeff
RayF
Senior Member
My view is that stainless is iron based and it will have a hard fusion zone and will also develop small cracks there on cooling.Under load they will eventually become structural cracks and could well lead to failure later on.
I've seen plenty of repairs using stainless wire. They often fail and are a nightmare to repair. By all means try some 304/307 on a bit of scrap. Cut it through and check for hard spots and put some crack dye check on it. That would be an interesting exercise.
Another way is to bronze weld the bore using a torch. Its a bit of a dying art but can work really well. I did a lot of Cat loader rear axle trunnions years ago before metal spraying was common. I used Nickel Bronze filler rods. Slow job but worked really well.
I've seen plenty of repairs using stainless wire. They often fail and are a nightmare to repair. By all means try some 304/307 on a bit of scrap. Cut it through and check for hard spots and put some crack dye check on it. That would be an interesting exercise.
Another way is to bronze weld the bore using a torch. Its a bit of a dying art but can work really well. I did a lot of Cat loader rear axle trunnions years ago before metal spraying was common. I used Nickel Bronze filler rods. Slow job but worked really well.
still learn'n
Senior Member
I have used a machinist that says he takes parts to local landfill or recycle yard and they have a machine that they shoot the cast and it tells them the properties and then he can send that to a place down in texas and they make a rod or wire that will work to weld up housing and machine it! Has anybody heard of that?
jcb jeff
Senior Member
Thanks Ray
I think maybe next scrap casting i come across i will have a go as you per your idea for testing and there is nothing to loose on it as its scrap anyway,i usually sleeve or bush but always looking for other options i think a 15 kg ll by 1mm dia roll of copper /nickel retails about £1500 so i may just bite the bullet and go for it .
Is it 60 copper 40 nickel ?
Jeff
I think maybe next scrap casting i come across i will have a go as you per your idea for testing and there is nothing to loose on it as its scrap anyway,i usually sleeve or bush but always looking for other options i think a 15 kg ll by 1mm dia roll of copper /nickel retails about £1500 so i may just bite the bullet and go for it .
Is it 60 copper 40 nickel ?
Jeff
RayF
Senior Member
Thats the one. Its sold here by Alloys International. Last roll I bought was 1700 AU. It works well on heavier castings. One bloke had some problems with small digger bucket links snapping through the bore after using it. I got some professional advice on that and started heat treating castings after they were welded. All I had to do was stack up some fire bricks and make a small over and stick a LP torch in there. 580 degrees C (dull red)for an hour and there was never a problem.
You do need one of those ventilated welding helmets. The wire gives off a black smoke and if you get a good dose of it you will be as sick as a dog that night.
You do need one of those ventilated welding helmets. The wire gives off a black smoke and if you get a good dose of it you will be as sick as a dog that night.
jcb jeff
Senior Member
Thanks Ray for the tip on the wire fumes as i dont feel like making my self bad
jcb jeff
Senior Member
Had a bit of luck managed to find a supplier for 60/40 copper nickel at £627 + vat so not to bad but still dear but it is a specialist wire and special cost for repairing such a casting i guess.
RayF
Senior Member
Its the initial hit that hurts.You can get a good return from it. When you consider it will repair a lot of castings that would normally go in the scrap bin its not to bad
jcb jeff
Senior Member
My welding supply company has come up with a 70 / 30 mix cooper nickel and when you compare the data sheet for the 60/40 its still within the specs of the 70/30 and the 70/30 is easier to get hold of as the 60/40 so far i have only located one roll but 70/30 is next day delivery. Thoughts please
RayF
Senior Member
The nickel is the good stuff for welding cast and they put in the copper for cost considerations. So the 60/40 I think would be better for that application but maybe the 70?30 would work if you want to save a bit. You would have to get some feedback from someone who uses it or buy a roll and do some of your own test's.
jcb jeff
Senior Member
Hi Ray
Whilst talking to my welding supply company about this 60/40 they had a tech guy in and over hearing the conversation asked what it was that i trying to weld so explained and he said you are kind of in luck as he used to work for company that put a package together welding wire side of it for over lay cladding / bore welding some 15 years ago and he recommended the copper silicone bronze wire and the copper silicone phosphorus bronze or a alloy silicone brass wire depending on the hardness required all are about the same price as the copper nickel.
Sorry to keep asking questions but i appreciate your help and experience in this line of work as you have been there and done this not just read it out of a book as to speak like when asking the welding suppliers.
Whilst talking to my welding supply company about this 60/40 they had a tech guy in and over hearing the conversation asked what it was that i trying to weld so explained and he said you are kind of in luck as he used to work for company that put a package together welding wire side of it for over lay cladding / bore welding some 15 years ago and he recommended the copper silicone bronze wire and the copper silicone phosphorus bronze or a alloy silicone brass wire depending on the hardness required all are about the same price as the copper nickel.
Sorry to keep asking questions but i appreciate your help and experience in this line of work as you have been there and done this not just read it out of a book as to speak like when asking the welding suppliers.
RayF
Senior Member
I've not had any experience with those alloys for welding onto cast. I think they would be OK to use but I don't know how they stand up when holding a bearing. You would need to get some data and do some comparisons on the physical properties.
I do some restoring of old engines and I have had pistons sprayed with aluminium bronze to increase the diameter to suit a bored out cylinder. Thats been a success but a completely different application.
I think that if the wires are similar price and knowing that the nickel/copper works I would stick with that. But I would be interested to know how the other wire performs
