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drug labs warning a long post

Randy88

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iowa
Has anybody had experience dealing with illegal drug labs or stumbling across any while working? I've had several run ins with labs over the years and this is some of the things I've learned from law enforcement and going to meetings and what an ex drug addict has said along with some addicts that I've known over the years.

The drug we have the largest problem with around here is meth and its getting worse, I have had a meth lab literallly yards from a house I lived at years ago that we stumbled across while deer hunting one fall, it was just shortly ago abandoned when we came across it in the woods along a stream and I was asked to look at a septic system one time and when I got there I discovered it was a meth house and nobody knew I was coming and luckily I did manage to get out without incident. There was a major drug drop on a farm I rented years back and we had plenty of vandalism problems until I was told by autorities what was going on and that they knew about it and were monitoring the situation. The real eye opener came when a vehicle went into the ditch not far from our house and we later learned after one of the occupants came to our door that the van was loaded with drugs, guns, enough to start ww3 mostly automatic weapons, booze and hand guns all loaded and ready for action, the authorities came upon it and subdued them while they slept off the hangover and came down from a drug high. Again we were lucky nothing happened and nobody was hurt.

This stuff is lethal from what I discovered and toxic and cancer causing after seeing the septic system bubbling in the dead of winter and greenish vapors coming from the septic lid and all the snow melted off the entire system I've since quit working on private septic systems unless I know the individuals who live in the house and are positive its never been a meth house.

We've burned and dozed under meth manufacturing vacated buildings and after I discovered how lethal this stuff is and dangerous and once its inside the buildings it never really leaves and buring only emits it into the air for the one buring it to breath in we quit doing that, basically we quit demolishion of those buildings as well, I don't want the liability associated with it either.

We have a greater situational awareness of our surroundings when out working, especially in secluded areas, we have gone to more of a proactive approach to staying safe and avoiding incidence with any of the makers or distributors, we have numbers such as county dispatch on speed dial on our phones, the owner always shows us the work to be done, if we are concerned we request the owner be present at the time of the work, we ask questions as to who has access and who needs to be there and why, we quit making initial contact with someone coming into our work area, we wait for them to come to us and are aware of what type of person we are dealing with, if alone we have cell phone in hand at all times when strangers approach, if not we have a pattern where nobody stands too close, we make them look around to keep an eye on all of us and note if they do monitor all of our movements while talking to us. We notice who's watching us work and where they are located and try to figure out if its out of curiosity or just to monitor us and have liscense plate numbers written down, we do scans of our surroundings beforehand to see whats over the hill or around the bend by the river before work or equipment shows up. I've contacted police ahead of time to find out if we are working in an area of suspicion or a high traffic area or the area is monitored, we ask who the neighbors are and who lives in nearby houses that we may be close to or who rents buildings nearby and what they do in them if known. Most landowners are older and have no clue whats going on and have little concern so we try to keep it simple and casual in the conversation to not alarm them or raise suspicion to our questons, having the owner there really helps because they are supposed to be around and then those watching know who has us there and they check with the owner and leave us alone, thats happened more times than I can recall and the owner never knew why he was being asked he just thought it was a casual conversation amoung neighbors or thier workers or family or whatever.

Most times we are just monitored as to what we are doing and kept an eye on, however several times we have been approached and questioned, which is very dangerous, because your too close to something you don't know about or where its at or where they want to keep you away from.

Law enforcement has told me there are boobie traps and automatic weapons wired to trip wires surrounding meth labs and I've seen several remains of trip wires left behind, its very serious and unless you know what to look for you could easily be killed accidentally just going around behind a tree to relieve yourself. We never wander from the work site after dark or before sunup, ever. We are cautious about abandoned buildings and ask the owner whats inside and when he was last there and for what and if he cares if we do a scan of the area, we try to make it look innocent and if its close to where we work ask if we can park our trucks there or things like that so we can check them out and make sure theres nothing in or around them to cause us harm or any reason why someone would harm us for looking or being there.

If you haven't gone to meeting explaining what meth and other drugs do to the body and how it effects the mind you need to know what kind of people your dealing with and how they think and how a high effects them and how they react to noise and vibrations and hillucations and things like that its really scarry and puts you on alert, your not dealing with anything you've ever imagined and you need to be aware for your safety and your workers safety, its not like you get a second chance to do better the next time.

I've come close a time or two when confronted I never knew just how close until afterwards when an ex addict I know told me it was he who kept me safe and put in a good word to not harm me or my crew becuse he knew me and knew I was no risk to them, it shook me to the core, he was honest and upfront and at the time was still using and came to warn me later how close and how to avoid it from happening again, he showed me the automatic weapon that was aimed at me through the door of the pickup that apprached me and the handgun the rider had in his coat ready to pull and shoot. It was a friendly reminder just how serious of trouble I was in and never really knew it at the time, I was too close to a major lab and made the operator twitchy, where it was I'll never know, we saw nothing and there were no buildings anywhere near us at the time but there was a river not far away.

If you work in the woods or do tree clearing you need to walk the area and look cautiously at the trees and surroudings for anything left behind before working or else you'll shove it up into a pile and light it up or not knowing whats inside that's explosive, or worse yet boobie traps left behind aimed to cause harm. I've found several one was a pipe bomb that I turned over to the authorities out of an abandoned building we were about to destroy and burn, actually I called the police and they removed it and told me what it was, I had no idea other than it wasn't right to be there. Sorry for the long post but I'd like to know if any others are having problems or were aware of whats going on around them, most contractors I talk to don't have a clue and are totally unaware.

I guess I've been lucky and if others hadn't told me and I didn't sit through meetings on this and talk to those that should know like the authorities I'd have just passed most of it off as different and never known what was really going on. If not for the meth addict who told me in no certain terms what was happening and how close I came I'd have not known until I heard shots or been shot and then wonder why and my family and crew would have wondered why such a senseless thing happened and left more questions than answers for doing nothing but operate a dozer pushing dirt in the middle of nowhere on private land??
 

watglen

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I was at a crop meeting one time and they ended it with a discussion on meth labs. More funny than informative. Its just seems weird to us in this area, because it hasn't hit home yet.

Mostly mary jane around here. And lots of it.
 

Mike L

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If we have that going on around here, i'm clueless to it. sounds like its not safe to leave the house in your neck of the woods.
 

alrman

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This is quite a serious subject Randy88 - Puts a whole new slant on workplace health & safety...... This thread is hardly a TGIF matter
 

Tiny

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NW Missouri
After having a brother in the middle of the meth bis . He told me in our area that there are 3 things to watch for . Big dogs in a fenced yard , windows blacked out and video cams hung on all sides of a house or bld .

He told me and I saw his actions during that time period that they become wildly paranoid and are always armed . Real bad combo
 

andoman

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midwest
Western Michigan is full of them, usually out in corn fields and near the high tension power line row.
 

digger242j

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This is quite a serious subject Randy88 - Puts a whole new slant on workplace health & safety...... This thread is hardly a TGIF matter

I agree. I've moved the thread up here to Safety.

Thanks for the informative post, Randy.
 

Randy88

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iowa
Most don't have any idea about whats going on and to just give the heads up and increase situational awareness is all. The biggest problems we have is secluded areas where nobody really goes much that have access to a main road or several access's out different directions, which is where we sometimes end up working, out back away from anyone and everything. Along streams in the summer is a bad place to be especially if its too small to canoe or do much fishing, they seem to hang out there and abandoned buildings where farmers don't check but a couple times a year or store hay in or seasonal machinery in that are secluded.

Open front cattle sheds are quite common around here and with the cattle gone, they are too short to get much of any modern machinery in so its partially full of odds and ends of mostly junk that nobody cares about but don't want to part with either so nobody goes near them but maybe once a year, those have caused the largest problem. The other is absentee landowners who rent out the buildings and never go see whats going on, most have several farms or building sites and they are so old no modern farmer wants any of the buildings so nobody goes there, drug labs move in and have free reign of the area unsupervised by just sending a couple hundred bucks a month to the owner for renting the house and their up and running in the drug business. Thats why I always ask who lives nearby and who owns the neighboring farms or land.

It also works in areas and neighborhoods, if farmers live and work the land and a lot of people are around and coming and going those areas have little problems, others are all absantee owners who own thousands of acres and have a lot of pasture and nontillable and timber on them and nobody but renters go there seasonally for maybe two weeks in the spring and two in the fall and the rest of the year nobody is around those neighborhoods have a lot of problems, or thats what law enforcement tells me anyhow, that also the same thing I've noticed as well, when you meet a lot of people as you go the job site and during the day if you can see a lot of traffic thats local people you recoginize you probably won't have any problems.

About five years ago there was a lot of meth making under bridges on little traveled gravel roads, they would be out of sight from the air and had easy access by vehicle and wouldn't need any vehicle there, someone would just drop them off supplies and pick up the made product, they busted over a dozen labs during one summer all making under county bridges, several dozen more where found abandoned or were prior labs but that slowed down, those are easy to patrol now that they are known about.

I guess the reason I brought it up was to make people aware, they are armed and will use force if threatened or in their state of mind think they are being treatened, which is really scary since you never know what state of mind they are in. The ones that came up to me that I later found out were armed were driving a new 4 door diesel pickup with all the bells and whistles and had window tint on the windows, just like most larger crops farmers drive today and thats what I thought it was a neighbor or something wanting something done and they drove up and parked a couple hundred feet away from my dozer so I walked over to chat, after I got there I still didn't realize what was going on and they gave some bs excuse about looking for a farmer and wondered if he had stopped to watch or talk to me or if I'd seen him at all, which I hadn't, the passenger was on his cell phone while I was talkng to the driver and then they left. I later found out that the passenger was talking to the guy that stopped by later to explain how close I'd come and he gave the order to leave us alone and do no harm, looking back I realized what took place, my knees shook when it sank in. I now wait until a strange vehicle comes close to where I'm working and a lot of times I stay on a machine until I see who's inside, that way I"m usually higher up than they are and I"m looking down on them with a lot of iron around me.

I never meant to do anything other than give some examples of what I've run into and whats going on in some areas and what to look out for and above all be safe and cautious. Good luck
 

norite

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What a post! I've never heard of that around here but it'll probably get here someday. I had to check your location again, hard to believe it is like that in Iowa, my perception of your state is really out of date. Up here drug busts are mostly houses used as grow-ops and some small plots of grass out in the bush which the police spot from the air.

Must be bad for hunters and fisherman, you could walk into something and never know what hit you. I had heard Iowa had some of the biggest bucks in the US.
 

Randy88

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Deer season is in the fall, and its usually cold out, thats why I stumbled across an abandoned lab while hunting, it was too cold, they moved indoors, during the summer they are outdoors and move in when it gets colder, they shy away from areas of high traffic and a lot of steams are too small to fish or canoe on and are somewhat remote, those are what they seem to like and if they are hidden from the air, all the better. I don't know how long they use a site but if its in the outdoors apparently not long.

They now have what they call mobile labs as well, I was trenching in a tile line not far from my buildings and the road and the local fire department came and asked if I had hit a gas line, no, why do you ask? Someone reported smelling lp gas and they were trying to locate the probable cause and since I was the only one doing work nearby they came to investigate. After some discussion they said it was probably just a "mobile lab" or in a van or a box truck and that way they stay mobile and can move without interrupting their making process any and it can't be seen from the air either and its never in one spot long enough to raise suspicion.

There has been a tremendous problem with anhydrous ammonia theft, or drilling out the large 1000 gallon tanks and trying to capture the liquid and putting it into 20lb barbaque tanks, dumb as all get out I know but its happening or else they siphon off some and thats the topic of conversation, how to make them lockable so this can't be done. Lp gas is somehow used in the cooking process and when they do it you can smell gas and have no idea where its coming from and thats why the fire department stopped by, to see if I might have hit something.

I do usually ag or forestry type work and its usually off the beaten path out back on some farm moving dirt or clearing back trees and when your that far away from anything you usually don't expect to see anyone but the owner or a neighbor whos snooping to see whats going on or someone looking for me to do something for them or to see if they like what I'm doing and want to hire me. This also puts me in the area of where things might be happening and I try to find out ahead of time who owns what or is living where, one time I ended up literally across the fence from a major lab, on the back end of 400 acre farm dozing out tree's and putting in a terrace and doing tiling for that project, the neighbors house was maybe 300 feet from where I was working, no big deal until I saw a sign on the fence that stated "don't come any closer there's nothing here worth dying for" and it was painted on a small sign and had been in the fence for a while, say 6 months, there was motion sensative monitors along the fence so if anyone or anything crossed it they knew in the house, the occupant didn't want company to drop by apparently and I was watched like a hawk the whole while I was there, a real eerie feeling, nothing happened but still, for that job the owner was on site the whole time, I insisted and he was fine with that, he had mentioned to me before we started the project to not cross the fence or get too close and in his words, I don't think I really want to know what goes on over there, their not right in the head.

I guess I grew up in simplier times when if one had trouble or problems they could always hop the fence and aske for help and the neighbor would always lend a hand or help one seek help, thats not always the case anymore, it a terrible thing to say but its true, first you need to know who your going to and then figure out if they would help or do more damage, thats sad to say as well. With the invention of the cell phone it makes you more connected to help but also a more unfriendly world in some ways, if someone sees you coming the first thing they ask is why didn't you just call someone, why are you here, not whats wrong and how can I help, thats a hard thing to get adjusted to when your used to the way it was.

I get further from home with a lot of jobs than I ever thought I would and when I get into a different area and I know nobody is when I get nervous and those are the times I ask the most questons. I did a job a few years back about 100 miles from home and it was also a good distance from the road and the farmer gave me these instructions, so and so has whatever pickup and nobody else needs to be here if someone approaches you call me immediately and I'll come take care of it, avoid everyone and don't let them near you or your crew, it might not be safe and he checked on us constantly during the days we worked for him, he also gave us the sheriffs cell number in case we couldn't get ahold of him personally, he also told us to not venture off his land or go to any neighbors buldings for any reason. We never had problems but he was upfront and honest about it as well, I thanked him and he knew why I was concerned. He also told me no farmer would stop by without seeing him first, its just not done in that area and he would either call or come out with them to introduce them to us. Different areas do things differently so I always ask what the neighborhood procedures are and how things are done.
 

koldsteele

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Aug 20, 2010
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Va.
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Owner Heavy Equipment Mechanic
What a post! I've never heard of that around here but it'll probably get here someday. I had to check your location again, hard to believe it is like that in Iowa, my perception of your state is really out of date. Up here drug busts are mostly houses used as grow-ops and some small plots of grass out in the bush which the police spot from the air.

Must be bad for hunters and fisherman, you could walk into something and never know what hit you. I had heard Iowa had some of the biggest bucks in the US.
The reason its a problem in the heartland is amoinium nitrate ..this fertilizer is a key ingredient in the manufacturing process ..bad stuff ..ruins lives ...
 

John C.

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The labs were a huge problem in the Northwest about seven years ago and you still see them busted occasionally. They started with rental houses, then moved into box vans in out of the way places and now use abandoned cars found out in the woods.

Most of the west coast states have limited the amount of ephedrine that can be sold at one time by pharmacies. As I recall, that is the main ingredient in the stuff. A lot of the speed freaks take it to keep partying for days. They will drink lots of booze and take crank to stay awake. When they finally come down they fall asleep, maybe for a day or more. It is not uncommon to find someone in a parked car in an odd place hard asleep behind the wheel sometimes with the engine still running. We used to approach the cars to make sure something wasn't wrong but not anymore. We just call the police and report it.

You can tell a real hard core freak because their teeth are rotted to black stubs. They never go to dentists to get them fixed because all their money goes into the drugs. The stuff also changes their brains and twitchy is what describes the nervous movements they make even when off the stuff. Their brains never recover. I'm told they never regain a sense of humor and never laugh again. The stuff is also cheap compared to cocaine which is supposed to be somewhat the same kind of high.

What we are hearing of now is that most of the stuff found on the west coast is being made at super labs in Mexico and shipped in by the illegal aliens. Since Washington on one of two states that will give out a driver's license without proof of identity, we think this is becoming the distribution point for other places in the country.

I used to have a client that only cleaned out drug houses. They had a box van with all the supplies and tools for clean up. They told me the houses were always condemned and that they were only cleaning the places up so they could be torn down without contaminating the whole neighborhood.

Thanks Randy88 for the thread because I've been similar places and situations like that and never gave it a second thought because I was focusing on the job I was doing. I'll probably get a little twitchy next time an unidentified driver comes up to me while on a job.
 

icestationzebra

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Jun 21, 2009
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WI
I used to live in Portland, OR. Lots of meth. I came home from work one day and the HAZMAT crew was cleaning a house just down the road from my apartment. The worst part is that many of the cooks have small kids in the house inhaling the toxic fumes and getting permanent brain damage. They often have fires because they get distracted and the concoction boils over the pot into the fire!

They would steal anything they could find to feed the drug habit. Stealing copper wire and pipe from new construction and abandoned buildings, man hole covers - they even stole an anchor from in front of a maritime museum! It got so bad they changed the law so scrap yards could only pay out with checks, which helps the law track them down.

John is correct that ephedrine is the main ingredient. Oregon has required a doctors prescription to get it for several years now. (They didn't bother with a drivers license because they knew they were too easy to fake) The buyers normally have to trade cash and ephedrine pills to get the meth. They will go from drug store to drug store, buying boxes of pills and then popping them into baggies - they call it smurfing. And yes their teeth do turn black, plus it makes their faces look old and I think some of them also get thinning hair. I saw some pics of people before and after meth and it was scary how fast they age! I think some of the damage is permanent.

As far as the ammonia goes, I have heard that there are several different ways to cook it. They use what they can find in the area.

If you want to get more info I highly recommend a story by Frontline on PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/

ISZ
 
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Randy88

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iowa
Have any of you heard what effects it does to anyone working on the private septics from the houses where this stuff is cooked in? We have asked a lot of questions and nobody will really say, but its supposed to be cancer causing and the fumes are almost lethal if inhaled so we just quit doing septic work altogether until someone will give us an answer. Around here the law states that once the property is sold the first time it has to be disclosed it was a meth house or a meth lab but after that it doesn't have to be, so they are selling them on the courthouse steps at auction and then the buyers go in clean them up and resell them to anyone, most times its couples with little kids because they are cheaper to buy, which outrages me but its legal and anyone who does work on the house even after the first sale on the courthouse steps doesn't need to be told they are working on an exmeth house, which again isn't right.

I've seen a lot of the rotted out teeth, but it takes some time, the ones running around in pickups here are the new ones to the trade and are still looking pretty good so its a little misleading just by a glance encounter. They tell me at lectures I've been to 20 years after any use and cancer will get them anyhow, but nobody knows about the health hazards to workers who have done work in houses or on septic systems or bought these vehicles that were mobile labs or even the pickups they distribute it in and use in. Has anyone else heard any hard data on any of these things.

I've done septic work on private septic systems for years it was never my favorite job but we did it anyhow, but when you come to one that's giving off greenish vapors and bubbling and the concrete lids are decaying and brittle and anything metal is basically rusted to nothing, glazed sewer tile is beyond brittle and actually collapses, and a few years before it was perfectly fine and normal? It can't be good, I've even asked how to work on the stuff, since hazmat comes in dressed from head to toe with suits and self contained breathing devices and then say its all clear to go in and and they never go back unless totally suited up, I have even asked yea but what about the septic system and they say, its not my problem and I'm not touching that or anything with it, and I'm supposed to?

I've talked to the local pumper truck operators and they are having a lot of problems, by law now private septics can't be spread out on the ground in fields, they have to go to a city waste treatment center and be processed just like in town and towns are refusing to take them because it kills the enzymes that they use to treat the waste with and break it down, it basically destroys the city's treatment facility and I asked them and they say we don't know the health effects but it isn't good and most are quitting to do private septic work for the same reason as me, instead of repair they'll only install new.

Icestationzebra, I've seen the frontline show and its good, I've even seen a few others that are equally good but none address what we do and our heath hazards or how to protect us from any damaging effects, I used to think if they want to kill themselves by destroying their bodies that was their decision but what about us who don't want anything or any side effects from the stuff. I've loaded up a lot of junk metal and done demo on houses and buildings where the stuff has been made and I sort of quit doing it until someone will explain what the risks are to me and my crew. Has anyone been told or anyplace to go look for hard data on our health effects? Thanks for the replies any input is good and its nice to hear others know about it and are aware as well, most I've talked to in my area have never given it a thought or even knew about meth, let alone where it was made or what to look for.
 

dist3

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Easier to run the labs in secluded areas. Off gassing of chemicals during the cooking process give off odors which are reported as unkown odors and are checked in populated areas.
 

Buckethead

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I don't think there are many drug labs in this part of the country. Thank God! Randy, it's probably better if you stay away from those places if you're concerned. But if you have to demolish a drug house or redo a septic from one, maybe get a respirator with chemical cartridges. The respirator cartridges should say what chemicals they are good for. If you know what kind of respirators the cops use when they go in one of those places, get that kind. Hope this helps.
 

LWG

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This has been a very enlightening, but disturbing, thread. I had no idea the Midwest and Northwest had this sort of problem. What a shame...
 

xkv8r

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Jan 1, 2008
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nebraska
I was working in Iowa as well . Was going to spread limerock on guys drive. Unloaded my machine , had to take a pee so I decided to walk over by the treeline and go . As I looked down in ravine I saw a mobile home trailer. And started thinking how the hell could you get that thing down there with all the trees and steep inclines . No road or any thing close. As I turned around good looking lady with no teeth and gun told me I had 10 seconds to get off her property . Where she came from I dont know and i didnt hear any footsteps. I did not stick around to finish job. The second time we were building mountain bike trails in some bottom land. I was walking to where we were working at , my buddys were about 5 mins behind me . As I came around the corner , I had a bow and arrow in my face. Must have startled the guy. He was so methed out he couldnt talk. I thought i was dead. Luckily my friends came up and he was soon outnumbered.
 

Taylortractornu

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Iuka, Mississippi
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I have friend that works for the forestry dept. He was running a little 350 plowing a fire line a few summers ago and a couple pulled a deer rifle on him. THe law wouldnt come out there so he took matters in his own hands. The land they were on wasnt plantation and he talked with the owners. The lit it on 3 sides. Cleaned it off smooth with the ground. Our law enforcement here in this county wont investigate these labs usually too busy chasing us beer drinkers.

I know in 2001 I was an operator for a company doing a job near some old abandoned houses. The land owner was up north working on a pipe line and his wife was alone and walking her dog around the property. They shot her dog and left it on the porch with a note on it. When the game wardens and the state police got there and watched for the folks. They were arrested and we were asked to dig a trench to detonate the acetone and ether. THey put brush on top of it and lit it then set off charges on the acetone and ether. We had to wear space suits and rinse the D66 Komatsu I was running.


I worry about this when we check fences around the landfill we run has a wooded corner that we cant use. We have found some bottles there before. We always go in pairs and carry a gun.
 

oldtanker

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vining mn
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ND has the same problem with vacant farm sites from farms that have sold out to larger operations. The drug people pull into the sites and park rigs in the old machien sheds to keep out of "air sight" and start producing.

Rick
 
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