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Dresser Td8g won’t grade to save my life

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by johndeere2240, Apr 28, 2021.

  1. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    Hey guys, been lurking here for years and usually am able to answer any questions I have by searching the forums, but I have finally run into something I can’t find a good answer for so here goes, (this is probably going to be long winded)
    I have been doing dirt work/excavation work now on the side for about 5 years, in that time iv bought and sold some equipment and grown my little business always using older equipment ( I like old school) and I currently have 4 pieces that I work with, a Peterbilt 359 tandem dump, a John Deere 310d 4wd backhoe, and a Dresser 175c loader, and finally a Dresser Td8g dozer
    My first dozer was a Dresser Td8e, I loved that machine, it was standard track, fast, powerful and you could grade anything smooth as glass with it, but the dt239 engine is know to be troublesome and you can’t hardly get parts for it, so when I found a TD8g with the Cummins motor and rippers I thought that would be a updgrade that I could keep from now on as I really like Dresser/International equipment, this machine was a wide track machine with the 9’ blade, compared to my e model with a 7’10” blade, but it has been put back with standard 16” pads, which I like because I rarely work in soft ground I tend to do a lot of pad work and driveway installs and genral clearing work where the extra compaction and traction of the narrow pads are better. And it has what looks to be nearly new salt tracks, with new front idlers and top rollers, and sprockets, bottom rollers were reused, can’t tell much about them because of the rock guards but what I can see I can tell they are worn, when I got the machine the blade was bad loose, as was my Td8e so I bought all new pins and bushings and tightened the blade.
    Now the trouble is I can’t make a smooth spot of dirt with this thing to save me life, loose dirt is okay, but trying to shave hard virgin ground, or shape up a driveway is nearly impossible, it seems like on hard ground the blade is constantly moving up and down with the rhythm of the tracks, and the blade gouges in and starts the washboard, iv tried everything in the world to make it work, slowing to a crawl, just making tiny cuts to where I’m just tickling the dirt, trying to always keep the blade loaded you name it.
    I have a seasoned operator helping me, he has been running machines for approximately 40 years doing pipe line work and major road construction and says he has never been on anything as hard to run as this, everything iv read the Td8 has a stellar reputation I can’t imagine how it could be this hard to run, especially as nice as my Td8e was, I understand the wide blade machine will be harder than a standard blade to keep from gouging but this is horrible ‍♂️.
    Sometimes it seems like my hydraulics are slower than they are supposed to be, like I know I need to be coming up with the blade but it won’t come up fast enough, I was told my hydraulic pump could be wore and not providing enough volume making the spool for the blade control slow to respond, so I replaced the hydraulic pump, no difference.
    Now the other thing is when I got the machine the front idlers had no shims under them to shim them down against the track frame, and you could see the idlers moving up and down, so I ordered shims and shimmed them down pretty close to tight against the frame, now I’m wondering is the combination of worn rollers and new idlers shimmed down causing a problem? Is my track riding hard on my front idler and then coming back up to my rollers and will this make it hard to grade with? In other words do I need to replace my rollers? Or is this big rant all for nothing?? Am I just imagining problems??
    Any help or opinions is much appreciated
    Thanks
     
  2. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    Here is a pic of the machine 7B3F1897-8DCA-4824-B4F0-2EFFC9D3EAC6.jpeg
     
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  3. epirbalex

    epirbalex Senior Member

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    Can you change the pitch on the blade as the cutting edge looks well foward , good for cutting new tracks where it is ? Running the rippers over the ground you are going to grade will help to . Easy enough to check your bottom rollers , let you track ajustment go , apply down pressure on your blade and rippers will lift the dozer off the ground . You may have to stack cut tree rings to help . Don't place your hands between the chains and rollers but giving them a poke with a stick to see if the shafts have failed should be easy .
     
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  4. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    No way to change the angle on the blade.
    Absolutely ripping is the best solution when you can, you can rip then just push the material off and you can hold it level okay, but when your working on a compacted pad or driveway or something the you just need a few inches off and the rest undisturbed obviously you can’t do that, and that’s where I can’t do anything with it, no matter how easy you are it will grab and pull the blade in, it’s like you know the blade needs to come up but you can’t get it up quick enough, and if you need to go down with the blade the slightest move down and your nose dived again.
    Yes it’s going in the shop next week and get the rock guards off and have a close inspection of the rollers, I don’t hear any bad noise so I don’t think I have bearings gone but I could be wrong I suppose
     
  5. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    The eyes where the blade C frame can get very loose and cause a lot of what you are talking about. Do you have a shims left in the slide plates on the back of the blade. How about the wings those plates ride against. I've seen plenty of the plates welded up and flattened out and then no one touched the wings. The other big place to look is the horizontal pin at the bottom of the blade linkage. Lots of times the bushing gets wallowed out and then the blade face rides up and down in the slack inside that bore.

    If everything on that end is OK, I would check the blade handle control linkages. Lots of slop in there and it will seem like you are always reacting to late to the movements of the blade.
     
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  6. HATCHEQUIP

    HATCHEQUIP Senior Member

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    What John said and
    Some thoughts :
    wider blade and dozer did have wide pads so could this mean that the c frame or push frame is longer to miss pads when angled and has got the machine nose heavy , maybe throw something heavy up on the ripper and try grading
     
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  7. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    John and Hatch - those were my first thoughts as well. Wear and misconfiguration.
     
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  8. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    Blade has been rebuilt, it is very tight, i also replaced the pins and bushings in the end of the c frame just for reason mentioned.
    It does seem like the machine is nose heavy so I welded a piece of rail road rail on the back of the ripper bar and stacked 2 sets of old cutting edges on that, and it did “help” some, but it’s far from perfect.
    Now I have thought about the narrow pads, but I can’t wrap my mind around why the width of the pads would affect how easy/hard it is to keep a level cut?? Can you explain more? And yes the blade lever does have slop and I have worked on that but the parts are no longer available and re drilling to bigger holes helped but now I’m back to sloppy again, I will address that again in the near future but I don’t think that’s my whole problem
     
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  9. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    Got the machine in the shop yesterday to do a service on it, so while it was there went ahead and pulled the rock guards off to have a better look at the rollers, with the machine sitting on concrete the track chain is not even touching the front 2 rollers on either side, matter of fact you could put your fingers between the first roller and the rail if you wanted, so I went ahead and order all 10 bottom rollers, going to put them on as soon as they arrive and report back.
    Does anybody think this will affect how the machine operates/holds grade? I would think it would but this is new territory to me............
     
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  10. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Take a couple of pics of the rollers and post them.
     
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  11. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Are the roller flanges hitting the track link bosses on the rest of the rollers?
     
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  12. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    No they are not hitting the link bosses yet, but the rails appear to be pretty much new and are nice and thick, they still had paint on them when I got the machine.
    It appears that the front two are wore worse than the ones in back, maybe from the machine being front heavy from having the wide blade? And someone replaced the front idler and now with a thick idler it’s holding the rail down lower than the front rollers? I will post pics tomorrow night when I get to the shop
     
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  13. skyking1

    skyking1 Senior Member

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    yes the front couple of rollers take the most abuse in any track setup, and it is going to rock forward as it rolls off the tall idler into that void of the worn roller area.
    It is possible that the idler is shimmed down to cause this, but that is unlikely.
     
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  14. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Sounds like someone threw on a set of chains and didn't touch the rollers at all. You might check on if the idlers can be installed in a high or low position. I remember that on Cats but don't recall if it is the same on the corn binders.
     
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  15. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    Yes I have the idler shimmed down at the moment, I did it out of ignorance, when I got the machine I noticed the front idlers moving up and down a lot, so after some investigation I realized they did not have any shims under them at all, someone had just bolted the wear strips up under there without shims causing a big gap between the wear strip and the track frame, so I ordered shims and shimmed it down to tighten up the gap and to stop the idler from moving up and down
    Now I’m thinking that the reason there where no shims was when someone replaced the front idler the had to leave out all the shims to allow the idler to move up to account for the bottom rollers being wore.............maybe I am off track myself tho.......we shall see
     
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  16. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    With Rails loose and rollers being swapped look also to the Rail Truck mountings, make sure these are not 'loosened' up where they too are moving to a reasonable excess as that will also come into play. Any and all play from blade mounts and supports or cylinder attachment points to trucks idlers and and rollers all add up to large movements at blade edge.
     
  17. johndeere2240

    johndeere2240 Active Member

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    Could you explain “rail truck mountings” ?
     
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  18. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Clearing land I do OK. Finish grading I've never been as good as I want to be. This day was about over, I smoothed out the track best I could. Along the edge was clumps of torn sod, and all the traffic pushes moist sand up raising the sod close to the track. My friend Kenny climbed aboard. He'd run a TD7E since childhood. He began with the edge of the blade about 3 feet into the sod that looked good already, said he needed to cut it down to where it had been in the morning. He runs the blade angled & holds one end of the blade on soil he wants to match. Clumps of sod were his biggest challenge. Very soon he had it flat.


    Grade is easier with processed material. Roots, sod, rocks will ruin a grading attempt.

    Not having run your tractor I flinch at the width of your blade. Keeping it level is going to be tough! Might be easier in a parking lot, but over terrain seems tough to level. I'd think just wide enough to see the corners of the blade from the seat.

    full.jpeg
     
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  19. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Width of the wide pads kept the tractor more nearly level. 9' seems wide for a standard track machine. Blade must extend 18" past the track line.
     
  20. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    The new bottom rollers and shimming the idlers correctly will/ should make a dramatic difference in carrying a finish grade.
    In hard material I used to move the dozer over on each pass 1/2 of a blade width. Keeping one track on a near perfect finish grade really helps.
    I only mention this because there will novices reading this thread and hopefully it will help them.
    I never ran a TD8, but I did spend some time on a angle blade TD7E. It was a nice tractor for grading ditches.