Dozer work per hour.........

[FurakawaMatt]

The $100/hr you can get Ahrens is really too low to offset the cost. I realize that you have to get by with the competition forcing low prices. I imagine you do better from bid jobs. As I mentioned in my earlier post a person needs to charge enough to cover costs plus wages (owner/operators tend to cut this part out to compete better) and there should be adequate money to repair and replace. Even though I do not run anymore as a business I still charge those neighbors/ friends that I do occasional jobs close to the same as if I was.

Good luck with the Dozing business.

 

[AU.CASE]

We could all earn a decent living without breaking ourselves. I'm glad to hear from you all who have the same feelings as myself. Hopefully we can all work together to help improve this.

Hi all,

This is a big problem, where we get screwed over by undercut$.

I don't do a lot of contract and have just finished a small one with my Dozer for a neighbour in very steep going on blue sandstone, I know last time I charged a premium for the scars on my tracks he brought in a cheaper operator from town, that's ok, but when I look at the last job and I walked back to my workshop, virtually all the income went in a major fluid change that was due and fuel - not really worth it.

We have been farmers [ranchers] since 1880 here on the same land more or less and my Dad was in the Engineers in Asia for 3½ years in WWII, he bought into the property with his wages and now I own it with my wife, we do all the work and sell 60 tonnes of pure produce a year.

Pity it hasn't paid a wage since I left school in 1975, we just do it for habit and the amenity of a beautiful place, don't know for how much longer as prices go up and commodities fall, dozing its the same - race to the bottom.

This photo was a fence-line, yep we are still breaking into new country here in Eastern Oz, doesn't require any environmental applications to complete.

 

[Bumpus]

.
One thing that I have always had a hard time understanding is how other people ( in business ) think everyone else should charge the same price as everyone else for the same kind of work. :beatsme

If I have an older dozer that is paid for, ( and have been in business for many years with satisfied customers for years, and make the money that I am satisfied with ) why should I care if another person buys a brand new dozer, of the same size, and has to charge another $20.00 - $25.00 sometimes even more on the hour to meat his large monthly payments when I don't have any. And his profit is the same as mine or he can't get jobs because he is higher than I am ?

People do not go into business for other people, and just because a person does a real good job running a peace of equipment does not mean that person knows how to run a successful business.

Maybe ( he or she ) has to many ( personal and business costs ) to meet like house payments, car, pickup, fishing boat, camping trailer, New Truck and Lowboy to haul the Big New Bulldozer.

Most of the time the areas people work in have more people in the equipment business than there jobs to be done, so in order to stay in business they have to bid jobs lower or charge lower prices per hour to be competitive against the guy who works cheaper.

Why should the little guy raise his prices to support or compete with the efforts of the higher priced guys with more overhead and bills than they do ?
That would be like committing suicide. ointhead

People do not go into business to help there competition in business to be successful ! ! !
.

 

[FurakawaMatt]

I see your point Bumpus that the older dozer that is paid for can be run for less than a brand new leased one. And so long as it can be maintained and replaced for the amount of money you are charging to operate it then you can indeed under bid the competition. That is business.

However if you are living off the equity in that machine with nothing being put aside for repair/replacement eventually you will run out. The amount you charge is your own affair. However if you undercut other business folks by doing charity work (work that does not cover the true costs) you have to expect them to be unhappy about it. Now if you are profitable paying yourself a decent amount to cover Health care, retirement and taxes than you are just a good businessman. If not, you are making it difficult for others to get by with a reasonable standard of livelihood.

 

[ILLICEMAN]

Nice to see a lot opinions out there.Keep in mind you are not out there for your health,you out there to make money and stay in businness.Compitition will keep you in line and hopfullly making a reserve for future bills.
Please don,t say I can,t charge enough.If you can,t get out while your machine is worth something and work for someone.

 

[ahren's dozer]

I agree $100 an hour is a little low and you are right I try to get my money's worth by bidding on a job.

My dozer is paid for and when I look for another one, I always try to find one at a reasonable price. Many operators in my areas bought newer dozers at an outrageous price. The guy who charges $75 an hour for his D6MXL currently bought a D6NXL and D6R nearly brand new charges less than everyone just to get the jobs to pay for the high payments. Then when he pays it off, he goes and buys another one because of necessary repairs and starts all over again. I try to charge enough for the wear and tear on the equipment as well as making enough money to maintain basic necessities at home and in the business. Most of my stuff are paid for and I still charge people the same because I want to keep my equipment as long as it allows me to by mainteance. Many people mistreat their equipment and do not respect them. The equipments keep me from digging by hand and save my back. We may not all be on the same price range, but should be close enough proportionally.

 

[thebaz]

I see your point Bumpus that the older dozer that is paid for can be run for less than a brand new leased one. And so long as it can be maintained and replaced for the amount of money you are charging to operate it then you can indeed under bid the competition. That is business.

However if you are living off the equity in that machine with nothing being put aside for repair/replacement eventually you will run out. The amount you charge is your own affair. However if you undercut other business folks by doing charity work (work that does not cover the true costs) you have to expect them to be unhappy about it. Now if you are profitable paying yourself a decent amount to cover Health care, retirement and taxes than you are just a good businessman. If not, you are making it difficult for others to get by with a reasonable standard of livelihood.

There have been some very good points made here and I think FurakawaMatt, has brought a very balanced view to the thread.
I have been through some hard times in the 25+ years I have been in business, and I know that sometimes you have to make some choices in desperate times that you would not otherwise make, I do however think that it is important to try and stick to the ideal of charging what you are worth.
I know that to some degree the market will dictate what you can charge but at the end of the day it is your business and you have to decide whether or not it is worth working for the "Market price". While I understand the ability to charge less and be more competitive when you no longer have the overhead of paying off a new machine, why should you be making the same (low) profit margin as someone who has the luxury of running a new machine, has less maintenance and will probably have a machine that is not fit for work when they upgrade at the end of the lease or whatever. You should benefit in some way for looking after your machine and running a good business. There are always clients who will tell you you are too expensive no matter how cheap you are, and it is usually the ones who's lifestyle is much more affluent than yours who complain the most. I always think, if I am charging too much, then why aren't I rich!
Baz

 

[Kingston]

Up here D4 $90 and that's still too cheap. The bottoms go fast on all this hard sand.

 

[pinesd3400]

Td 15 $70.00

 

[Seafarer12]

In my area a 550 goes for about 55 and a D8 goes for about 80 to 100 depending on the age of the machine. We have some real old ones running around.

 

[nextdoor]

In the west of oz, rates go up and down with the mining industry, especially larger gear. 10 years ago I dry hired a D9L for 100$ ph and in a year it was 200. At present I think it is about 250 to 300 dry, that is no operator, fuel, oil ect. I havent done any contract work for a long time (3 years) but I charged about 225$ (D9L) per hour and they supplied the fuel, didnt think it was too bad until I finished and popped a tranny!!! In the end came out sqare with a new box. I guess Im in a lucky position that mainly I use the machine on my own property and dont have to work it off farm but if the deal is good then I might be tempted.

 

[watglen]

I was quoted 3000/week rental on a 6T. I supply oils/fuel/operator. I thought that was a good price.

Another fellow quoted 3800 for a kom d37ex (89 hp, 18000#) monthly. Again, pretty reasonable.

 

[da'yoop]

Anybody want to beat this dead horse some more???

How many folks here buy their gas/fuel at the cheapest place around? Would you drive across town to save 15 cents a gallon on gas? Does anybody here shop around for prices on cell phone plans, cable tv, or satellite dish service?

I looked in the phone book today and found about 15 companies that do excavation. That's not counting the no-name guys that have a dozer or backhoe for hire. Then I looked up HVAC contractors. There are only 2 companies that do commercial refrigeration around here. They charge twice as much per hour as the excavators and don't have anywhere near the overhead. It's all about supply and demand. Too many contractors in an area will drive the prices down.

We all want to pay as little as possible for the stuff we want, and that includes our customers.

 

[ehcatguy]

Unfortunately the economy has taken its toll in some areas like ours. Here in the northeast some are giving the equipment away for the cost of the fuel. Forget about the cost of facilities, money or maintenance. What until the economy get's better and you try and raise your prices to repair all of that worn out equipment.

I agree with RollOver Pete. You need to draw the line. Every business needs a profit to stay for the long haul.

 

[da'yoop]

you're right ehcatguy...but not everyone needs to charge the same amount to make a profit, and the amount of profit isn't always the same.
Some guys are happy with 20-30 thousand a year profit.....some want 50, 60 or more.

 

[buckfever]

while this resesion has been tough this has also weeded out the hacks now when the work comes flooding back those that had a good reputation and good busness practis will come back lean mean and ready to through some dirt.

 

[BarnStarFarm]

while this resesion has been tough this has also weeded out the hacks now when the work comes flooding back those that had a good reputation and good busness practis will come back lean mean and ready to through some dirt.

My Nana had a saying, "your mouth to God's ear..." Sure hope you've got some crystal ball in you!

 

[ehcatguy]

I understand that not every contractors prices, overhead or profit margins are the same and can very substantially. I've seen the high side of 25% for overhead alone. Ours typically is 4%-6%. The issue I have is that the guys I know, who's overhead is on the higher side and renting and bidding equipment prices in the basement. An example of that is where one local firm recently bid on a project where the bid included equipment unit pricing.

Some of the prices on his bid were as follows.

Caterpillar 320BL 22.25 p/hr
Volvo 330BLC 26.75 p/hr
Caterpillar D-6N 31.00 p/hr

They were the lowest and weren't alone. Like us they are a union shop and the labor prices were no better.

 

[ehcatguy]

I think some of the hacks have probable been weeded out. But for the most part I don't think they have and I believe some have thrived.

We have had several clients tell us that our prices can't compare to that of the other contractor. Then you go by a project and you see all the beat up equipment and the illegals working you wonder how we ever get back on track. GO OBAMA

BarnStar Farm - We have a 28" ESCO Bucket. If your interested email me at ehcatguy@gmail.com

 

[da'yoop]

I understand that not every contractors prices, overhead or profit margins are the same and can very substantially. I've seen the high side of 25% for overhead alone. Ours typically is 4%-6%. The issue I have is that the guys I know, who's overhead is on the higher side and renting and bidding equipment prices in the basement. An example of that is where one local firm recently bid on a project where the bid included equipment unit pricing.

Some of the prices on his bid were as follows.

Caterpillar 320BL 22.25 p/hr
Volvo 330BLC 26.75 p/hr
Caterpillar D-6N 31.00 p/hr

They were the lowest and weren't alone. Like us they are a union shop and the labor prices were no better.

Wow.......
Sometimes a business will take jobs at a loss (if they can afford it) just to run off the competition.......sucks, no matter how you look at it!!!