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"Don't Drop the Ball"

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by Nige, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. check

    check Senior Member

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    Safety is one thing, corporate safety programs and safety men are another. If one is cynical about corporate safety programs, safety meetings, safety rules and the lackeys who administer them, it doesn't mean that one is careless about safety.
     
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  2. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Spot on check !

    Sat though a BS safety meeting this morning .

    There went 25 minutes of my life I will never get back . It was all " cover your ass " for the company and everyone knows it .

    Sign & date your signature at the end ..........;)

    I damn near got a paper cut when my buddy passed me the sign up sheet .:D
     
  3. Dozerboy

    Dozerboy Senior Member

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    I worked for the biggest and baddest in the Energy field and Railroad. It’s easy to blame the safety guy and call him names when your not in his shoes. You get a crew of guys that have TD25c attitude your safety meetings are going to be a little dry and unproductive to say the least. So ya safety is what YOU make of it. There is a thin line between being careless and having a bad attitude about safety. It doesn’t take much to find yourself on the wrong side of that line and somebody you care about get hurt because of it .

    I’m only talking about attitudes here I’m not talking about rules. I won’t disagree with anyone that their rules can be over-the-top. But think about it like this. I can guarantee you those rules exist because someone or hundreds of somebodys have been hurt because they chose not to follow those rules Or they didn’t exist.
     
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  4. check

    check Senior Member

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    I agree. It's up to the employee to work safely according to his ability.
    There is an important distinction between having a bad attitude about safety and having a bad attitude about safety policies and those who administer them because safety policies are usually written by lawyers and the objective is a winning posture in court rather than safety. The courts don't do a perfect job of administering justice yet they seem to be the ones who initiate the policies companies adopt. How much time have Judges and Lawyers spent wrenching, operating, climbing booms, grinding and welding?
     
  5. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    I worked at AMEREN MO, Callaway Nuclear for over twenty years. Can actually state flatly our safety manager was a twit. He quoted contexts that did not/COULD not apply to what was being performed such as "Fall Protection, Full Tie Off Above Six Feet", he applied that to our removing and resetting fuel shipping casks on flatbeds, If we got on the trailer had to be wearing a harness, if reached to the top of a three set of casks(log loaded) we had to use double lanyard tie offs on the harness to get up to set lift rigging. Was more a danger to hook/unhook the protection that to set the rigging. I chose to run the damn crane and F**K the harness crap. Tried showing him where the rule did not apply under DOT regs, he would not EVEN attempt to understand. He was far more unsafe as to forced crap than realistic. To enter a three foot deep access manhole to open or close a valve we had to test air, have a air monitor ON person, had to have full harness on, required a safety man AND call the control room for each entry/exit, five minute job took an hour. Monitor was all we needed in the early days, sample the hole, get an elephant trunk fan and go in. Rules is rules and stupid is still stupid.
     
  6. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I was in a corn processing plant in Iowa with a 175 ton crane. Had a similar situation to yours dmiller. Saftey man shows up as we were preparing to take counterweights off the support trailers, and set them on the deck of the crane to install. Installation rules were anything over 3' up had to be tied off. Where in the world do you tie off on a flatbed trailer? So there I was, all 6'6" of me, wearing a harness, with a 8' lanyard, tied off to the rub/chain rail on the side of the trailer. And the rub rail on the single drop flatbed was all of 3' off the ground.

    So if I stumbled and fell, the lanyard would have gotten tight, 3' after I hit the ground. But the safety man was happy, he'd done his job and we were tied off.

    I'm all for safety, its just that job struck me as particularly funny.
     
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  7. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    I used to wrench on vac trucks and hydrovac trucks. We were about 11' to the top of the catwalk on the side of the tank. I did not like being tied off up there. For one, they only provided us with 6 foot shock absorbing lanyards and a 2 foot dog leash to tie off to the top of the tank. If I fell, I'd not only hit the floor, but I'd end up getting my head smashed into the deck of the truck as well. When I brought it up they simply said "well use a 4 foot lanyard." Great idea if only the anchor point on top of the tank wasn't 5 feet away from the area we needed to repair 95% of the time. A self retracting lanyard would have been optimal if they weren't too cheap to buy them. I eventually refused to go up there because I didn't feel it was safe with the equipment they provided.
     
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  8. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Yeah Dozerboy . Got it , that's pretty cool . :cool:

    Most of my attitude is genetic ........ I can't help it :)

    My Old Man got it form his Old man & I got it as well & will pass it down to the boy ....... Hard headed bunch :D

    The Old Mans first " safety meeting " was in 1969 . Grab a flack jacket & M-16 ....

    Then an all expense paid trip off to Viet Nam & Cambodia .

    Old man gets back to the states after the tour & the funny part is everyone was worried about " safety " LOL !

    Sorry guy's ..... The Old Man would say stop acting like Pu$$ys & do your job ! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  9. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Like mashing a finger with a hammer, walk it off get back to work were the first words from my Dad!! Seems all these safety managers want their names in headlines in the safety letter papers or tabloids, they strive not so much for being safe as to enforcing rules they have no clue how were adopted or by whom and to the why they were adopted. Iron workers now have to be cabled off to the structures they used to bound around on free climbing, there are really certain inescapable conditions that are hazardous but no worse then pruning trees at home or driving old iron with no cab guards/home made cab guards.

    I worked in a power station, we lived by company inspired rules at first, SUGGESTED long sleeve shirts inside the plant around the hot piping, heavy jeans and working boots. Then came OSHA and the others, steel toed shoes then NFPA came in with Fire Retarded (retardant) clothing for electrical flashes. We ended up having to wear long sleeved heavy cotton fire retardant treated shirts OVER t-shirts and extremely heavy denim (I believe 14 or 16oz duck) which equates to canvas heavy inside a building that on a good winters day was 105 degrees. Got to working out OSHA limited stay times and according to the 'Rules' we showed safety we could only work 10-12 minutes at a time needing more men per shift to do the job. Safe was actually killing us, he blew that off and suggested we add cool vests to the layering, he was suggested he wear what we had to IN PLANT for a day to which he stated: I am a manager, I do not wear working clothing on a whim to prove a fallacy. Too bad for him as he said it in front of plant manager, he was fired. Next one up was twice as bad.
     
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  10. Dozerboy

    Dozerboy Senior Member

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    Not being able to climb on top of a flat bed truck in standard in a lot of places. And the fact that the safety man had you improperly use a harness and lanyard is ridiculous. Awls you have to do is Google flatbed trucks and hundred percent tie off’s and you come up with all kinds of solutions to that problem.

    TD25c
    “Quit being a pussy and get back to work “

    Your old man probably would’ve said that common sense isn’t so common anymore too. The fact of the matter is that’s what most safety stuff is. Someone lack common sense and made a poor decision while doing a semi risky behavior got them selves hurt and now we all have rules we have to follow because of that
     
  11. Tradesman

    Tradesman Senior Member

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    I'm lucky I only have 3 employees and that's all I want, that way I can have employees that are bright enough to protect themselves, anytime I have a new hire they don't get off the ground for 6 months or run any equipment unless I know the their work history. Then they go for their working at hights training and what ever else they require. My employees have all the safety equipment and time and my support to do the job safely , but if they aren't bright enough that they can't keep themselves and their fellow workers safe without someone leading them around by the hand , they'll be kicking their lunch box down the road.
    So I guess if your a large enough company that you need to hire, shall I say intellectually challenged workers, then I guess you better hire them a babysitter as well.
     
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  12. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    I'll sure try my best Dozerboy ......

    Helping the Old Man on a remodel of the home he grew up in " old farm house " . Mostly dry wall work & painting .

    Two evenings in to the project and He's only accidently busted out one window . So far so good ! LOL :)
     
  13. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    I cant repeat most of what the Old Man has to say on this forum . :D
     
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  14. RZucker

    RZucker Senior Member

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    And here in lies the problem... Stupid people doing things that stupid people should not be doing. Do we need a 30 minute safety meeting to tell people not to put their hand in moving machinery? Not to stand under suspended loads? not to stand in the middle of the haul road? It's getting old, hearing the amount of crap "safety guys" can preach in their meetings anymore. A... They have to justify their pay, B... Maybe there are enough dumbasses out there to justify their job... Kinda like a dog chasing his tail. I been out there for 40 years and have a strong self preservation instinct.
    Now, getting the crew lined out for a crane pick, or keeping the grading crew from running over each other should be the Supervisor's realm, not some guy with a degree that's never seen the field and gets paid to waste my time.
    I had to work with one 25 years ago that had to ask me where to start with his first meeting. Big DUH.
     
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  15. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    Here's the BS that gives safety a bad name.

    A number of years ago when doing a project at Oscar Mayer Weiner in Madison I got wrote up by their safety official when we were assembling a crane in the parking lot. There plant rules were that a critical lift sheet had to be filled out for any lift over 3,000 lbs even if you had a 100 ton crane with a tight in 3,000 lb load. I did the paperwork for the first track lift. We moved to the other side, still on asphalt hoisting with a 100 ton crawler crane with only base boom and tip installed, and close in. I got wrote up for not doing another critical lift sheet. That weekend a barrier rental company, that the plant hired to install hi-way barriers around my construction trailer, delivered and set them with the boom on the delivery truck. On Monday I got wrote up 14 times as they set the barriers without any critical lift paperwork. I had to appear before a safety committee that laughed when I told them it was their sub, not mine. A few weeks later one of my labors, and of course me also, got wrote up for not having his extension cord hung form the ceiling as was required. He was the only person in a finished, completely empty 40 ft. square freezer, vacuuming grout flakes where we repaired the tile floor. It was written that he could pull the vacuum over his own cord causing a potentially serious hazard. This was a project that I did not finish. After toughing it out for 6 months, spending more time on Bull Sh*t than on construction, it was get me out of here or see you later. The plants hired construction safety inspector could dream up anything. Just heard the other day that the plant is closed down or about to be. Wonder why?
     
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  16. Kiwi-truckwit

    Kiwi-truckwit Well-Known Member

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    That's ridiculous OIH.
    Since the Pike River mine explosion that killed 29 men 9 years ago, there's been changes to the health & safety Act here and the CYA across the board has skyrocketed.
    For us in the crane industry, it means that every lift now has to be accompanied by a written lift plan, every commercial or industrial site we go to requires documentation of our training and qualifications, every task needs a written safety and risk assessment and we are subject to government inspections at any time.
    Most of this we've adjusted to now but there are still site safety managers who will throw us something out of left field to make our job harder. Usually it's something that the safety man has dreamed up with no consultation, justification or industry backing, but we have no choice but to comply. These are the people who have no business in safety, IMO. Safety is a culture, first and foremost. It doesn't just happen on somebody's say so, especially if those of us experienced in the job think the policy is ridiculous
     
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  17. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    We now interrupt this broadcast with a " Public Safety Message " from the Caped Crusader ........



    Rest in peace Adam West .
     
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  18. Tradesman

    Tradesman Senior Member

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    Your kinda a smart a$$ Td. You have my admiration forever.
     
  19. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Adam West always cracks me up laughing , I don't see how they kept a strait face while filming .. LOL !

    Remember him in an interview talking about the old Batman TV show ...

    Adam summed it up as " The Theatre Of The Absurd " .

    That's pretty close to what the safety culture has turned in to today :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  20. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Theater, I have also heard that word used to describe security practices.

    TSA at airports is the most obvious example of "security theater". Make people do a bunch of stuff to feel like they are "safe".

    Also things like making you change your password every 6 months which does nothing for security and can inconvenience people badly.

    "Safety theater" is very close to security theater.
     
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