1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Deutz engine help, BFL914C

Discussion in 'Forestry Equipment' started by flhayman, Jul 10, 2022.

  1. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    It's on a Jarraff line clearing boom saw. Bought it at auction, idled it 15 minutes to reposition it after they delivered it, then BOOM, big hole in the crankcase. It had oil. It was still running when I shut it off and the dipstick is now at the 'add' line. How did they know it was going to blow up and to auction it off? The sound, I imagine, and the guy who drove it said it ran great at the yard. It sounded reasonable for an engine pushing 4 hydraulic pumps when it running while I moved it. Oh well, I've got to get it going and could use some info.

    I haven't seen a single model for sale of that exact engine. I see the B4FL914 engine, though. Does anybody know the difference?

    There are 4 pumps: 3 in series driven by the flywheel end, plus the 4th pump is mounted on the side of the crankcase for the air conditioner, mounted up on the swivel behind the cab. That may be a problem area for substituting a more common Deutz, but I could possible replace the pump with a belt driven one in order to use another variant.

    I appreciate any help, thanks.
     
  2. OzDozer

    OzDozer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    617
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired ..
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia.
    That's a bummer when that happens. I'm surprised there were no knocking noises or other warnings before it threw the leg out of bed. Auction buys need to be cheap, because a lot of "problem" machines end up in auctions.

    The "C" stands for "charge air cooled" (i.e. - an intercooler is fitted). Doesn't seem to be any other differences between the B4FL914 and B4FL914C, apart from higher power output for the "C", and the "C" is 25 kgs heavier.

    Have a look at Section 2 - 2.2 and section 9 in the link below ....

    https://deutz-minsk.by/pdf/service/914.pdf

    Also, the model number reference guide for Deutz engines is in the link below this line ....

    https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/documents/deutz-serial-number-cross-reference-guide.pdf
     
    BigWrench55 and funwithfuel like this.
  3. Plebeian

    Plebeian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    398
    Location:
    NZ
    I would be inclined to start from scratch with an engineer (hands on practical welder and theoretical type). Work out what went wrong. Analyse the hydraulic requirements of the machine and power to move the machine etc. So there is a 'current day' calculation of the hydraulic, engine power, engine cooling needed . etc
    Brevini pump drive (or similar) with a tandem pump on one drive hole would give you 4 pumps off the back of an engine.
    https://www.brevinipowertransmission.com/products-family/pump-drives/
    Whether to repower with larger Deutz or turbo deutz or another brand liquid cooled with reversing fan etc.
     
  4. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,461
    Occupation:
    Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
    Location:
    Ubique
    Was it #1 cylinder that let go?
    There was a huge problem with Deutz engines fitted to Rayco C85 forestry mulchers that ended up in court many years ago. IIRC #1piston would melt and sometimes make an aperture on the block. Rayco nor Deutz wouldn't accept responsibility even though some machines were in warranty. Some good people lost their shirts and homes over that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    Hallback, skyking1 and OzDozer like this.
  5. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    Thanks, Oz, Plebe and Tones. Those references sure helped.
    I could really use that reversing fan! Especially in my Toro 580D which I blast clean while the turbo is cooling down....the fan sucks back a % of what my air gun blasts away, but I don't like to cut it off while hot.

    The cylinder was closest to Flywheel and triple pumps. On my Deutz 1011 in another machine, I believe that IS #1?
     
  6. OzDozer

    OzDozer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    617
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired ..
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia.
    Yes, the cylinder numbering starts at the flywheel and runs forward to the fan. The operators manual that I linked to, in the first link I provided, shows the cylinder numbering at section 2.1.4 in that publication.
     
  7. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    Thanks for verifying my dim memory. Just talked to the equipment manufacturer and the variant that's on the machine (with the new gigantic hole in the side of the crankcase) is not the original. Very close, since it has a charge cooler, but not the original. So, that helps since I can buy one of the more common B4FL914's and be on spec. Very $$$ for diesel engines apparently, even for runout cores.
     
  8. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,461
    Occupation:
    Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
    Location:
    Ubique
    Have you considered repowering it with a more common liquid cooled engine ?
     
  9. OzDozer

    OzDozer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    617
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired ..
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia.
    I've always found, if one purchases European-built products, one always ends up paying the "European premium" in pricing, especially for parts. Deutz engines have always been costly to rebuild, and nothing's changed in 50 years.

    Of course, seeing as you've previously had a less-than-stellar experience with auction houses, I'd suggest an auction house is not a good source for a quality replacement engine.
    I'd suggest you go looking for a worn-out older combine harvester that is B4FL914-powered. These older harvesters usually sell for low prices, because all the moving components that wear out on them are the vibrating, shaking "tinware" components - with the engine usually still in pretty good condition.
    You can usually acquire them cheap, scrap the machine for a few dollars to help cover the purchase cost, and end up with a reasonable-hour engine that has normally not worked too hard. Of course, that plan is dependent on your ability to source a combine harvester in the condition required, at the right price, and within a reasonable distance from you.

    Another area to look is for a Deutz-powered trailer-mount compressor that has a blown air end. These are usually not economically repairable, thanks to the cost of compressor components, and you may be able to acquire a reasonable condition engine this way.

    Having a holed block is a big setback to acquiring a reconditioned unit, as you generally need to pay a core charge for a reconditioned engine, if you can't supply a repairable core. However, it's possible sometimes to find a seller who has a good engine, and who doesn't require a core.
     
    Delmer, flhayman and Tones like this.
  10. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    Yes, I did, but the mounts, the side mounted pump, and the bell housing/flywheel connect to the triple pump all convinced me to just get a replacement. The Jarraff company sold me an engine that they were going to get rid of. So now I'm interested in rounding up lots of huge JIC plugs and caps to supplement my smaller collection, and wondered if anybody has any suggestions for labeling the hoses? Something durable, of course, and would absolutely be bathed in hydro fluid during the R&R of the engine, hydraulic tank, filters, cooler, electric, etc. The aluminum strip stampers seem to be one letter at a time.

    The engine I'm getting isn't coming from the auction but is from the manufacturer. I agree with your ideas about finding a better deal with an entire used piece of equipment that is not economically repairable.
     
    OzDozer likes this.
  11. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,461
    Occupation:
    Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
    Location:
    Ubique
    Multi coloured zip ties are good for labels and make your own code as you go.
    Most industrial engines have SAE bell housings and hydraulic pumps are compatible. JD as an example have engines that you can mount pumps on the side and probably the same pump you have but I understand it's to late for that. Just for future reference.
     
    flhayman likes this.
  12. OzDozer

    OzDozer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    617
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired ..
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia.
    kshansen likes this.
  13. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  14. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    Thanks, I will look at those to supplement my mixed collection so far. I'll be able to valve off the tank fluid, so there shouldn't be much pressure on the lines.
     
  15. Hallback

    Hallback Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,008
    Occupation:
    Gyppo tower logger
    Location:
    Aberdeen Wa.
    I had lots of 914 parts but no blocks.
     
  16. Bluox

    Bluox Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,830
    Location:
    WA state
    Get metal cap and plug sets to fit your machine and stamp each set with a number stamp 1,2 3,etc.
    plug on fitting cap on hose
    much better than plastic and easy to read when oily.
    Bob
     
    John Shipp likes this.
  17. flhayman

    flhayman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    central florida
    Cool idea! I just got the plugs and caps finally all in hand, plus some 90 durometer orings for the split flange, if I have to remove it. I also put some colored zip ties on the lines that go to a similar place, too. Taking lots of photos, too.
     
    Tones, Hallback and BigWrench55 like this.