Deutz 1011 Runaway - Injector Pump Fault? Help Please!

[Nay125]

H All, In a bit of a pickle here and in need of some urgent advice if anyone can help please!

I have a Deutz 1011 engine in a Dumper (F3L 1011 L) that came to me for a service but had a running fault so was starting and running but with no revs. I completed the service, the customer then also asked me to do a timing belt change which i did and then started the dumper which was starting and idling as it was when it came to me. I replaced the diesel lift pump and was still starting and idling as it was before.

I then decided to look into this running fault it had and so removed one of the fuel injector pumps to have a look. Bearing in mind i wasn't aware that these were timed i then removed all three pumps to have a look for anything obvious. After seeing that one looked a little loose on turning i refitted all three into the same place that they were before however am not certain on which position the fuel control lever was in when they came out of the engine. Now when i start the engine up, it goes straight into runaway and won't shut off with the key and the only way i could stop it was to cover the inlet hole with my hand to kill the engine.

I have removed and refitted these injector pumps several times today trying different positions and different ports, and i believe i have it timed right however am not 100% sure that i have BDC right as i'm unsure on how is the most accurate way to do this other than by feel? The fuel rail is moving freely side to side and so i am pretty certain this is not bent.

i have removed the injectors from the top of the engine and the fuel rail to check if they are all pumping and when trying to start all three pumps are squirting diesel however when they are removed from the engine and i put pressure on the spring on the workbench only two of the three actually squirt diesel through the top as the other one (the one that was removed first that looked loose) is not pulling diesel through the top but seems to be going backwards and squirting out of where the banjo bolt fits. Could this mean that this injector pump needs changing?

Is there any other testing that you could suggest please? I've exhausted all of my options and hoping that you or someone on here can help

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dave Neubert]

are the racks on the pumps all free if so you got the rack out of time

 

[Vetech63]

Although there are 3 individual pumps, they are controlled by one single rack. The only way I know of to get a runaway on that system is if the fuel rack binds which will override the governor. It is easy to bend the rack when a pump isn't quite lined up with the rack slot. Those pumps are also timed by shims under the mounting flange on the pump if I remember right.

Did you remove the fuel rack during any of this?
Are you positive the rack isn't bent or binding?

If you are unsure and weary of restarting the engine, remove the injector fuel lines from the pumps and spin the engine to check for flow. You want to see no fuel when the shutoff is engaged. The engine doesn't have to be running to troubleshoot this.

 

[Nay125]

Hi mate, I'm quite new to the older injector pumps and I'm unsure on how I could get the rack out of time, it may sound a silly question but can you explain a little more please? The control rack moves freely and also when I switch the ignition on and off the rack moves with each switch.
Also do you know if there is a certain position that the needle at the bottom of the injector pumps has to be eg markings or left/right tof the pin hole etc?
Thankyou

 

[Vetech63]

Can you take some pics of the individual pump while it's not mounted so I can see the fueling pin? also, a pic of the rack slot inside the engine block. I want to make sure I'm not leading you down a rabbit hole. Its been a while since I have been in one and I want to make sure I'm not confusing it with a different engine.

 

[Nay125]

Although there are 3 individual pumps, they are controlled by one single rack. The only way I know of to get a runaway on that system is if the fuel rack binds which will override the governor. It is easy to bend the rack when a pump isn't quite lined up with the rack slot. Those pumps are also timed by shims under the mounting flange on the pump if I remember right.

Did you remove the fuel rack during any of this?
Are you positive the rack isn't bent or binding?

If you are unsure and weary of restarting the engine, remove the injector fuel lines from the pumps and spin the engine to check for flow. You want to see no fuel when the shutoff is engaged. The engine doesn't have to be running to troubleshoot this.

Hi there, thank you for your reply no we haven't removed the fuel rack however it is moving freely under spring load. Is there any way of checking if it is bent without removing the front casing?
Thanks for the advice on the troubleshooting, we did this earlier today and we had fuel through the top of the injector pumps with shutoff engaged (it has had a new shut off solenoid too), so do you think this would be due to inadequate timing of the fuel rack and the injector pumps?

 

[Nay125]

Can you take some pics of the individual pump while it's not mounted so I can see the fueling pin? also, a pic of the rack slot inside the engine block. I want to make sure I'm not leading you down a rabbit hole. Its been a while since I have been in one and I want to make sure I'm not confusing it with a different engine.

Yes I'll get some uploaded ill go out and take some shortly, no need to worry about rabbit holes, I'm already half way to the earth's core!!! But yes I'll go take some photos now and upload

 

[Vetech63]

Again, if I am thinking of the right engine, I'm thinking there is a scribe mark on the outside of the injector pump and that lines up with another scribe mark on the engine block. That positions the outer casing of the injector pumps. I seem to recall some racks I had seen in the past that had 2 different rack slots on the fuel rail also. This is why I need pics.

 

[Vetech63]

Does this engine have the fuel shutoff solenoid on the front cover? Is it the type with the hook lever? I have seen those installed wrong where the hook didn't make it into the fuel rail end slot. That can also cause the fuel rack to not gain governor travel. It's worth a look since it's been replaced.

 

[Nay125]

The engine does have the solenoid on the front cover and it is the type with the hook lever, however if this wasn't located in the right slot would it still pull in and out which it is doing?
Here are some photos of the fuel rack and injector pumps
Thanks

 

[Nay125]

Injector pump

 

[Vetech63]

he engine does have the solenoid on the front cover and it is the type with the hook lever, however if this wasn't located in the right slot would it still pull in and out which it is doing?

Possibly. There is a start spring on the rack. It could be pulling the rack against the stop lever and still move. If I were you, I would remove the fuel stop solenoid and reset all your pumps back into the engine block. The pins on the pumps go into the U-shaped slot in the fuel rail. See if there are scribe marks on the block IP mounting surface and the IP flange. Line those up.........then manually work the fuel rail from the engine stop solenoid bore and see if you can get it to stop the fuel. Once you have that, you can work on getting the stop solenoid in the right position. I think the way you are doing it, you're fighting the stop solenoid itself.

 

[Nay125]

So I have sorted the runaway issue, it was down to the injector pump Pin location. I had them all over to one side and didn't line up the scribe marks. I have done this now and we can idle the engine but it seems very smokey and doesn't rev. (Which was part of the original problem) I'm thinking that now I need to advance or retard the injector pumps but not sure which way or how much. Can anyone say from this picture which way I should be adjusting and possibly how much?
The throttle linkage is all working fine and is not spinning on the shaft.
Thankyou

 

[Vetech63]

Sounds like the timing is off. Was there shims under each pump when they were removed? The fueling pin only regulates the flow from minimum to maximum. The timing of the injector opening is done by shiming the height of the pump itself. At least that what I am recalling at the moment.

 

[colinkohli]

hello, i have a Deutz F2L traktor fitted with 2 similar fuel pumps and recently had a runaway due to a pin coming loose from one of the pumps which would not then shut off. I have since serviced them both and am getting ready to refit, bleed, test fuel pressure and hopefully run the engine on idle. I also replaced the inserts in both injectors and reset the opening pressures to 150 psi.Are any replacement pump inserts available and can you give me any additional advice?
Colin Kohli

 

[Vetech63]

Are any replacement pump inserts

What do you mean by inserts?

 

[thepumpguysc]

I sure hope u meant 150 BAR..??
If u have the single cyl pumps, they’re throw aways.. parts cost more than the pump.
Injectors are rebuildable.

 

[colinkohli]

thanks for yours, yes indeed i meant 150 bar.
i have rebuilt the injectors with new nozzles.
The pumps are single cylinder and i meant the "plunger" that actually pumps the fuel. I may not need anything till i replace the plate and crank the engine.
Further, i have some shims which were fitted on the outside of the pump body that i cannot insert; i guess these adjust the timing?
I will send some pictures over soon and try to make a video during first crank
Thanks again
Colin Kohli

 

[colinkohli]

I guess the fuel rack is in the normally open position and fully closed when the (manual) lever is pushed forward to shut off the fuel, and regulated by the throttle linkage and large internal spring applying friction as required? Incredible mechanisms for their age!
I also found the date stamped on the cover plate- 04.08.64!! Nearly on her 60th birthday......

 

[thepumpguysc]

Nay125>> now that u cured the run away.. your rack could still be bent..
Remove the solenoid and reach in with your finger or a hook scribe and FEEL if the rack is binding..
I’ve missed the rack a time or two and bent a rack or two in my day.. it’s VERY EASY to do..
Just MAKE SURE the engine rack moves SMOOTHLY from start to stop..
Good luck & I hope you don’t have to change a rack.!!