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Detroit 353

Blueboy

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Mar 14, 2015
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319
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pittsburgh Pa
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Machinist. God bless America ! ! !
Lantraxco you are correct! I got it backwards above. 1.508 is more retarded than 1.496 Thanks for keeping an eye on me:eek:
I don't know how this machine ran before.

Added:
Supposedly more advanced (shorter) makes the engine easer to start cold. Above I said retarded, I meant to say advanced. It does get a little confusing, up, down, more, less...:dizzy
 
Last edited:

Zed

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Apr 30, 2010
Messages
194
Location
Australia
Sounds like it was well overdue for a good tune up! Should be running great after you're done, please let us know how it performs!
 

Blueboy

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pittsburgh Pa
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Machinist. God bless America ! ! !
Bubbles! :crying I still have bubbles! :crying Acts like it did before. I don’t know what to think. I was sure I eliminated everything from the tank to the engine. I put a clear hose after the pump, I didn’t see any damn bubbles. The only thing left is the pump. I’ll double check the fittings but I think a new pump is in order. The hard part is done, it did need at least one injector and the valves set.

One thing about the bridge clearance on the rear set of valves #2 cylinder. I think that is what was making the engine loose power (post #1) and having a different sound towards the end of the haul up the hill. (post #7)
With zero clearance, when the valves get hot and expand they wouldn’t close and loose compression.

Compression is #1-325, #2-360, #3-310 That’s a cold engine and using the starter. The book says to run the engine at 600 RPM for each cylinder checked at operating temperature. REALLY?

After I put the new injectors in I checked the valve clearance on #1 cylinder (which I didn’t do before) and they were both .020. So front to back was .020, .020 .027, zero, .016 and .033

To add to my problems, getting a decent manual has been difficult, but that’s the way it is in my world. The one from Yesterdays Tractor was good but out dated (returned). I ordered one from a dealer and is was one thick 1 1/2” book with glued solid binding that looked like a cheep reprint with faded pages. (returned!!). Ordered this one from eBay, an original manual copyright 1990 material (Revised / Updated from the original issue dated February 1985 edition). Publication Number: 6SE202 Printed in the U.S.A. EBAY LINK I haven’t gotten it yet but I think it’s a keeper. The price went up $30 after I got mine.

The valves are set to .026 and the injectors are set to 1.496. I readjusted the fuel rod and the control levers, their set even on all the injectors. So far I haven’t messed with the governor.
 

Blueboy

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Machinist. God bless America ! ! !
I have not taken it out for a drive yet. It's probably better because of the adjustments but I ordered a pump rebuild kit anyway. Another $50 invested.
 

Blueboy

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pittsburgh Pa
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Machinist. God bless America ! ! !
It could be a broken or stuck ring or a valve issue. You might be able to rent a compression tester when you pull the injectors and test.
I agree with testing compression on #1 while the injector is out. Could just be the injector but east to test while its out. Then you will know for sure. Did that machine set for a long time before you bought it. It is quite common for stuck rings when the Detroits set for a few years. Thats part of what running the Pi** out of them is all about.

Compression done, results... Sketchy.

Compression is #1-325, #2-360, #3-310 That’s a cold engine and using the starter. The book says to run the engine at 600 RPM for each cylinder checked at operating temperature. REALLY?
Could there be some sticky rings here?

I've done plenty of compression tests on gas engines and the TDI 1.9 PD in my surrogate sons Jetta. I have NEVER heard of running the engine to do a test.
Is testing compression like the book says really necessary?

Elevation here in Pittsburgh is in the neighborhood of 1370 feet. "By the book" my compression should be in the 400-430 range?


Compression.jpg
 

old-iron-habit

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Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
To do an completely accurate test you would need to run the engine at the 600 RPM. Does compresion go up when running faster? I would expect so as there is less time to leak past the rings. With that logic, (if it is good logic) you are probably in the ballpark. I would get the air out of the fuel and run it first. Some one will correct me if I am wrong on the compression theory.
 

mitch504

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Feb 27, 2010
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5,776
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Andrews SC
I'm sure you'd get higher readings with it running than just spinning 150 rpm or so. The biggest thing I look at is the difference from cylinder to cylinder. 310-325 is not a lot, but 310-360 is.

I think at this point, I'd take her out and work the mess out of her. Rev her tight and dig a hole, fill it in, dig it again. The best explanation I ever heard for how to run a Detroit was to first slam your hand in the door so you'll be in a bad mood. They like high rpms and steady work. DO NOT LUG a Detroit!

Run her hard and steady for 2 or 3 hrs, then see if you've fixed your problems.
 

lantraxco

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Jan 1, 2009
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Elsewhen
The two stroke engines get air from the blower which needs to spin up enough to overcome the normal air bypassing through normal clearances, and then there's the fact that it's ported so it has a very short compression stroke, I would assume a large difference between cranking on the starter and running at 600 rpm, which is probably why they developed that plan in the manual. You will note the last line that tells you NOT to do the test spinning on the starter is emphasized with italics? I think they were asked that question a few times, heh.
 

Blueboy

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Machinist. God bless America ! ! !
To do an completely accurate test you would need to run the engine at the 600 RPM. you are probably in the ballpark.
The biggest thing I look at is the difference from cylinder to cylinder. 310-325 is not a lot, but 310-360 is.
The two stroke engines get air from the blower which needs to spin up enough to overcome the normal air bypassing through normal clearances, and then there's the fact that it's ported so it has a very short compression stroke, I would assume a large difference between cranking on the starter and running at 600 rpm, which is probably why they developed that plan in the manual. You will note the last line that tells you NOT to do the test spinning on the starter is emphasized with italics? I think they were asked that question a few times, heh.
If I'm in the ballpark I'll take it!
The difference is a concern. That's why I'm going to run the pee out of it and hope for the best.
I guess it's a two stroke thing... Makes perfect sense.
I'm learning:)


As far as the bubble problem... :deadhorse I'm not sure anymore.

I rebuilt the pump but there was NO difference. The old seals and shaft looked good.

It would be nice to know if I actually have a problem or not. See what you guys think. Someone said normally there are some bubbles but this still looks excessive. Video looks wavy https://youtu.be/ZpLTYZkF9Zc

I'll hook up the hoses and bucket on Friday and see what floats to the top.

Thank for hanging in there with me. I think this post has almost ran it's course. I know my patients have.
 

Blueboy

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greenstars.gif
Apparently there are no bubbles, it was/is fuel agitation.

I talked to Ervin at Leid Diesel, he said that's what it looked like (Emailed the video). Also to hold the hose end below the surface of the fuel in a bucket to be sure. Last time I did that was with the bad injector and there was definitely bubbles. I'm pretty sure that little trick was discussed here before.

All is good after one bad injector poorly set valves and one over excited wan-a-be diesel mechanic.;)

I love you guys!grouphug.gif:drinkup brews all around!

Thanks everyone!!!
Blueboy
 

hetkind

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Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
Glad you finally got the motor sorted out...I am taking delivery of my first piece of equipment in the next week, a Deere 450 crawler loader with 4 in 1 and hoe...I imagine it will need some sorting!

I had an interest in a Dynahoe 490 4x4, but freight would have paid for a new undercarriage for the Deere!

Howard
 

Blueboy

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pittsburgh Pa
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Machinist. God bless America ! ! !
I thought this was worthy of mentioning. After checking the fuel the engine was at running temp, I checked the valves and the gap was .027-.028, .001-.002 bigger from being set cold. The injector was 1.497, .001 over the cold setting. That was on the #1 cylinder, I didn’t see any need to go further or to make any adjustments. And I noticed the compression was much higher when I was turning the engine by hand. When I set everything cold it was a lot easer to turn. Which means the overall compression should be higher. Wonder how this machine goes in the snow…
 

old-iron-habit

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I thought this was worthy of mentioning. After checking the fuel the engine was at running temp, I checked the valves and the gap was .027-.028, .001-.002 bigger from being set cold. The injector was 1.497, .001 over the cold setting. That was on the #1 cylinder, I didn’t see any need to go further or to make any adjustments. And I noticed the compression was much higher when I was turning the engine by hand. When I set everything cold it was a lot easer to turn. Which means the overall compression should be higher. Wonder how this machine goes in the snow…

OK. After all this we demand pictures of you pushing that poor little defenseless white fluffy stuff.
 

Blueboy

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pittsburgh Pa
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:notworthy


A few more pictures. 1st and 2nd my dog Woofy checking out my work. 3rd my temporary tractor shack. 4th is a doe I burred after someone shot it and left it for dead 4 weeks ago, was a gut shot, guess they couldn't find it.

YouTube link of pushing the snow and driving around the burn pile for the 3rd time. Not a lot of black smoke but lots of power. The governor still needs adjusted, still wants to die if I throttle down to fast. I'm amazed how well this thing goes in the snow. But I did get a little stuck trying to back up the hill, the sun melted the snow a little and the weight if the machine compacted it solid ice.

This machine keeps getting better and better, it would not be this good if it wasn't for the guys on HEF. Thanks doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of my appreciation.

https://youtu.be/ACC3dYXH_SY

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