Deere 4045 Engine - Weird Problem

[thepumpguysc]

If they’re steel lines, just blow’m out..
The manufacturer really padded their bottom line by making a “closed top” lift pump..
Like the one pictured.. u can no longer remove the top to clean the screen.. (bummer)

TVA is correct.. a restriction in the return line WILL slow the rpm’s down to next to nill..
But I think the poster is on the right track..
Personally, if it were sitting in my yard, I woulda taken the hose off AT THE PUMP INLET.. cranked the engine while I watched the fuel pulses.. if it was “ok”.. hooked it back up..
Removed the return connector on the top cover and started the engine.. checked it at wfo to see if the rpm’s came up..
Then pulled the top cover to see if it has rust or flex ring problems..
Blow out lines and change filter..
Lastly ordered parts..(if needed)

 

[Bluox]

No separate bowl on this filter. I still have a new one coming as of a minute ago. Can't hurt to sling on a new filter at the same time as the fresh lift pump.

When you change the filter remove the black cap and clean it out.
Bob

 

[Parts]

When you change the filter remove the black cap and clean it out.
Bob

Does it just unthread after the filter is off?

 

[Parts]

Just an update tomorrow is the day I will get to this machine. It will get feed and return lines blown out, fuel tank fittings blown out, fresh fuel, a fuel filter full of acetone, and then run for short period. More acetone and run again. Will then let it sit until Monday.

If they’re steel lines, just blow’m out..
The manufacturer really padded their bottom line by making a “closed top” lift pump..
Like the one pictured.. u can no longer remove the top to clean the screen.. (bummer)

TVA is correct.. a restriction in the return line WILL slow the rpm’s down to next to nill..
But I think the poster is on the right track..
Personally, if it were sitting in my yard, I woulda taken the hose off AT THE PUMP INLET.. cranked the engine while I watched the fuel pulses.. if it was “ok”.. hooked it back up..
Removed the return connector on the top cover and started the engine.. checked it at wfo to see if the rpm’s came up..
Then pulled the top cover to see if it has rust or flex ring problems..
Blow out lines and change filter..
Lastly ordered parts..(if needed)

If the new lift pump and filter don't help and I decide to remove the pump top will that be something I can return back to normal without new gaskets? Just wondering if I remove the pump top and its clean if I can put it back together and start looking elsewhere for the running issue or if I will have to get a gasket in to seal it back.

 

[Delmer]

that much acetone seems a little harsh and drastic. Check your fuel supply, or run on a temporary tank, and see how it runs. I wouldn't go adding lots of acetone, or opening up the injection pump until you've tried a few things first.

If you knew the fuel was gunked up bad, and/or contaminated, AND you had tried other solutions, then some acetone might be in order. It sounds like this runs nice, just won't handle a load, plus extremely low hours, make sure it's getting plenty of good fuel, then let it run a couple hours to see if it improves.

 

[Bluox]

If you want to add a cleaner to the filter get some Stanadyne diesel treatment , that is recommended by the injection shop I use and it sometimes works on sticky pumps.
Check the easy things first before taking the pump apart.
Bob

 

[Parts]

Update: didn't have a lot of time to put in hours at the shop today but I did go take a good look at things. I am almost positive my issue is purely the fuel. Today I fired it up and it ran for maybe a minute (unloaded) before the engine started shaking and shutting off. I put some of the fuel on my glove and it lacked any of the sharp scent of diesel. Certainly old fuel and possibly contaminated with moisture among other things. Now I am not saying that flushing the fuel tank and lines and new fuel will necessarily fix it because there might be rust and gunk in the injection pump but I do think its the best first step. Worst part is the damn tank is 2/3rd full!

 

[OFF]

One other thing to think about.
On a lot of air compressors, the throttle is held wide open by a spring. The air cylinder hooked to the throttle actually slows the engine down when it activates, not speeds it up. When air pressure builds, it slows the engine down. When air pressure drops, the spring is allowed to speed the engine up.
When that spring on the injection pump breaks, it really throws you for a loop until you realize how it works.

Not saying it's the case here, just something I learned along the way that was unexpected. Something to be aware of.

 

[Parts]

One other thing to think about.
On a lot of air compressors, the throttle is held wide open by a spring. The air cylinder hooked to the throttle actually slows the engine down when it activates, not speeds it up. When air pressure builds, it slows the engine down. When air pressure drops, the spring is allowed to speed the engine up.
When that spring on the injection pump breaks, it really throws you for a loop until you realize how it works.

Not saying it's the case here, just something I learned along the way that was unexpected. Something to be aware of.

Thanks. Yeah I checked throttle actuation and even move the throttle by hand to try and keep it alive.

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

If going the acetone route, it NEEDS to be a mix of ATF and acetone. Straight acetone won't lubricate and can damage the IP. 50/50 max acetone.

 

[Parts]

If they’re steel lines, just blow’m out..
The manufacturer really padded their bottom line by making a “closed top” lift pump..
Like the one pictured.. u can no longer remove the top to clean the screen.. (bummer)

TVA is correct.. a restriction in the return line WILL slow the rpm’s down to next to nill..
But I think the poster is on the right track..
Personally, if it were sitting in my yard, I woulda taken the hose off AT THE PUMP INLET.. cranked the engine while I watched the fuel pulses.. if it was “ok”.. hooked it back up..
Removed the return connector on the top cover and started the engine.. checked it at wfo to see if the rpm’s came up..
Then pulled the top cover to see if it has rust or flex ring problems..
Blow out lines and change filter..
Lastly ordered parts..(if needed)

I'd like to take the top cover off the pump before even trying to start it but 2 questions. Can I open the top to look in and still be able to put the top back on without a gasket replacement? Will I be able to spray off any debris or sludge while the cover is off? I verified the stock lift pump works but also the fuel in there was rather old and sludgy so I would like to clean anything I can see in there if you think its possible.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes and yes..
The top cover has a square cut trapped seal that’s reusable..
U can blow out any debris..
If u find any black “coffee grounds” or “mouse turds” in the housing, it’s a tell-tale sign of a bigger problem.

 

[Parts]

Yes and yes..
The top cover has a square cut trapped seal that’s reusable..
U can blow out any debris..
If u find any black “coffee grounds” or “mouse turds” in the housing, it’s a tell-tale sign of a bigger problem.

Thank you! After I drained my fuel tank I stuck my borescope in there and I saw nice clean tank walls but there was what I would call coffee grounds on the floor of the tank . Is the flex ring that I assume has let go going to be visible from the top?

 

[Delmer]

The coffee grounds will be visible in the return fitting on top of the pump, that's what plugs up and shuts down the pump. If you take the fitting off, all of the fitting so you can see into the top of the pump, then start it, or blow it out and flush so it's clear, and then it runs and keeps running, then you have your answer. it will plug again, and if you keep cleaning it eventually it will run away, so it's pumpguy time.

 

[Parts]

I think that there is a really good chance the pump has to come off once I remove the top. Hoping to remove top tomorrow and then remove pump right afterward. Is there a way to lock the engine and pump like in a cummins? Or just line up the lines in the pump window and be sure not to move the engine while pump is out being rebuilt? Oh also - those two wires on top of the pump...I tried to remove the hex nuts first but it would slowly spin the whole stud...can I leave them on and just remove the 5 sided security bolts to take the cover off?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes.. or get yourself an 11/32 wrench to hold the bottom nuts.

 

[Parts]

Any idea if I can lock the engine in time?

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

Any idea if I can lock the engine in time?

I don't believe so. Deere's usually just rotate to TDC on on the crank marks. With the DE pumps would insert a bolt (or a 3/8" bit socket) to hold it in time. Here's a link to the mechanical fuel system manual. If yours is a DB series pump, the procedure should be on page 72.
https://dealers.doosanportablepower...5N JD/CTM207 JD_4045_6068_Mechanical_Fuel.pdf

 

[Parts]

Thank you all. Well I took the top off the pump and there wasn't a single coffee ground in there. I don't know what I saw in the fuel tank with my camera but I don't think it had anything to do with the flex ring. Anyway, I had left ATF/acetone in the system for about 48 hours and drained the tank of really rancid smelling fuel. Today bled the engine and it fired right up. Ran a little and shutoff - then I realized my return wasn't submerged in fuel and that may have been hurting me. So I put both the feed line and return line a the test bottle of diesel and the machine fired up and stayed on. Runs beautifully. The sludgy diesel was the issue and thanks to each of you folks its fixed. Well we had a CAV pump 4239 come in the shop and I think the plungers may be stuck...starting a new thread on that!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Glad it started BUT.. it’s possible ALL the flex ring made it to the tank..& there’s none in the pump..
seen it 1000x.. especially if there’s no checkball in the return fitting in the top cover..
Once u get it going and back to work, watch out for the rpm’s raising and falling..(hunting) THATS your warning that there no more flex ring... and if u let it go to long, the engine will run away..
Good luck