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Deere 4045 ECM Schematic?

Discussion in 'Generators/Gensets' started by Birken Vogt, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Got a unit in with a 4045 that is common rail but the first gen that does not have aftertreatment. "Level 11" fuel system I believe they call it. Acts like a dead engine, no CAN gauges, and cranks but makes no attempt to start.

    I would like to know if somebody can help with an ECM pinout on this. I have manual CTM220 which shows pins for various sensors but I do not see in it if it mentions where powers and grounds are supposed to be.
     
  2. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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    Check the plate L/H side rear, could be 4045 HF 275 or 285. I think each may have a different ECM. Also IIRC there 3 different fuel systems, Stanadyne, Bosch and Denso mine being the later. My Rayco did the same thing after I sold it . The new owner employed me to run it for him and after 4 weeks sitting around while the "experts" tried to fix it I pulled the pin so I dont now the outcome. If I do some very deep digging I may have a schematic but it may only go as far as the PCU.
     
  3. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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    I just done some deep excavation and found a schematic but as I thought only goes to the PCU. So while I was digging the grey matter was going at 100 MPH. A few times mine did the same thing, sometimes it was a blown microprocessor fuse others it was a fuse near the ECU, it looked like a blanked end of an unused wire but there was a fuse inside the cap. Another trick was to short across the big terminals on the starter relay. None of these things worked when it died. Before I left the fuel rail pressure sensor was replaced, no result. Then after trying to start it it fired up but had a misfire, checked to manifold temps, #1 was cold so that injector was replaced. It made no difference and I moved on.
     
  4. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Birken, Check your PM.
     
  5. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    So this has turned into a lack-of-fuel issue. We have finished troubleshooting the low pressure fuel system and it is delivering but the high pressure pump just does not seem to be doing its job.

    It will give FC 157 FMI 17 "Low Rail Pressure" when cranking but mostly it is FC 1347 FMI 7 "Fuel Pump Asse...#1" and the display cuts off. But I understand that has to do with low pressure as well.

    Very hard to get to start and comes up to RPM slowly. Once up to speed it runs OK with a little thin smoke continuously like an old wet-stacked machine.

    I suspect the high pressure pump is going south.

    Model is 4045HF285 IIRC, I will get a serial soon.
     
  6. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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    If its a Denso pump there's a solenoid that governs the rail pressure which could have failed. Where the heck is TPG when you need him?:D
     
  7. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    I have found lots of info on the internet related to various problems that could cause this symptom. Suction control valve is most likely but there are other possibilities too such as rail pressure relief, etc. I am sure they are all expensive and not easy to check.
     
  8. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Check this first. Remove the return line from the rail relief and cap the line leaving the rail relief open. Crank/start the engine. If any fuel comes out then you have a bad relief. Those relief valves on the the Tier 3 engines were one time use reliefs, meaning if it opens it's done. The underlying cause of the opening would have to be determined.

    Do you have diagnostic software to connect to the Deere controller?
     
  9. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Checked it today. The relief valve is pretty much wide open. I understand these units like to fail suction control valves which leads to an overpressure event and relief valve failure.
     
  10. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    That is correct. I would replace both. It would be nice to see readings of the actual/desired pressures to confirm an SCV issue, but you need diagnostic software to do that. But make sure the wiring and terminals to the SCV are in tip top shape. Any open in any wire/connection will send that fuel system to full pressure opening the relief valve.
     
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  11. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    When reviewing the list of possible codes, 1347.05 seems to be SCV open circuit, which we have never seen, so was thinking that we don't necessarily need to suspect the wiring circuit since the computer would have complained. Or is that not dependable enough?
     
  12. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    That is a SCV solenoid "current" code, not a circuit open code (FMI 05 current below normal and 06 current above normal). I believe that code is a result of the relief being open. On the older ECU's (level 11) that code will be logged if the ECU is unable to match the measured pump current with the commanded pump current. With the fuel leak from the relief making low rail pressure the SVC is being commanded by the ECU to try and deliver more than it is capable of. So there is an excessive amount of current off time creating that code.
     
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  13. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Maybe I wasn't clear. We did not witness a 1347.05 at any time. We were thinking we would have expected to see that one if there was a problem with the wiring, circuit, or the electric side of the SCV. So I think we just replace the SCV since it is a known problem child anyway.
     
  14. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Sorry, misread it. I thought you had a stored code. Correct, I would expect to see that code if there was any wiring issues.
     
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  15. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    It is back together. It runs as good as it ever did. The new suction valve is quite different than the original. Feels like you are cobbling a bunch of pieces together. Also the o-ring on the original was quite torn (by the factory apparenty) and the fuel system had quite a bit of muddy rust including inside the rail, judging by the rail relief that came out. They used to have a 30 micron primary in place of the secondary.

    But it still runs pretty much. Glad to see it go.

    IMG_20210302_162017189_HDR[1].jpg
     
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  16. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Glad to hear it is running well. That shorty SCV was problematic at best.
     
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  17. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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    Good you got it done. Infuriating aren't they.
     
  18. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    It's like having to learn how things work all over again. Except this time around instead of publishing training books, the mfrs. are hiding info from you, and charging ridiculous amounts for common parts.

    I watched a video on suction valves from Australia to try and expand my knowledge after this adventure. According to this video, they pulse the suction valve once per pump stroke to fill each pumping chamber a certain amount. I guess that explains why these pumps have to be timed to the engine.
     
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