Deere 310A Backhoe wont start

[comet424]

so while i wait for my last video i took to upload
i did what i didn't want to do what guy said to do use 2 wrenchs on the return line where i told him i cant.. so i clamped vice grip on the steel line and then wrench it but didn't work.. pipe is still twisting and since i don't have spare steel tubing i don't wanna break it off... but i hear the fuel going back into the tank when i manually run the fuel pump lever for priming..

my next question is.. how do i test if this pump is turning is it not run off a timing chain or so? or is it like my Leyland its just a gear.. as i was wanted to know this pump maybe not turning..

and to comment on earlier about not using the starter fluid till after engine turning.. i have done that i just couldn't do it and hold a camera same time..

but i tried again had it cranking did 1 then 2 shot no more and no change.. not even a potential firing

and should that starter be running a lot faster? from the video i sent and when i post the finaly video as the charger says the battery is full

 

[comet424]

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[comet424]

another question how you test for compression maybe it doesn't have compression? as I only have a compression tester for gas... I just frustrated.. spring time it quit as the fuel filter and such finished off the starter.. I get startered repaired and new battery.. and it wont fire... as I figured shuld have just fired up no problem

 

[Delmer]

Wait a second, it wasn't running this spring when the starter died? The whole story might help figure this out. Starting from whenever it started and ran normally.

Don't jump to compression yet, you don't have fuel coming out of the injector lines right? that's the first thing to investigate, then it needs to crank faster, and THEN you can worry about compression.

I think if you hear fuel gurgling back, then you don't have to worry about removing the top fitting that thepumpguy said. Yes, this is gear driven just like a leyland. In the pic in post #21 there's a cover with two small screws behind the hose, crack that so and crank to see if you it drips like thepumpguy said, and see if it squirts fuel out the injector lines. if not, then remove that cover and crank to see if the one ring is turning inside there. Instead of taking that cover off, you can remove the inlet at the back of the injection pump, and see if the fuel level goes down as the engine turns, either way will tell you if the pump is turning.

 

[comet424]

no I said it was running till the starter bit it.. back in the spring.. and has been sitting since may
so I took another video and uploading..

ya no fuel is coming out of the injector lines.. no fuel is coming out at the injector line at the pump its self... well I had unloosened at screw I showed in the pic and the guy never said what that screw is.. as I thought it was a bleeder line.. and fuel comes out that screw when you crank the engine over...

ill take a look behind the hose.. and I took a video to show that the fuel is going back into the tank as I took the hood off and took the line off at the tank for the return line and cranked and the fuel was pumping out there.. but ill re try the cover I didn't see screws behind the hose earlier just the cover screws but ill look now

 

[comet424]

ok so here the 2 videos

I loosened the 2 screws nothing came off so I took the screws off and peeled the gasket off some so then the fuel poured out... then I just put cover back on as I guessing your wanting to know if there is fuel there or not... but I cranked more again and no fuel coming out of the return line just some air bubbles but since it cant crank fast so ya... I doubt I working on more today as its starting to get dark.. and I getting frustratred… it should be firing.. it should fire on starter fluid and it doesn't let me
so ill look at it tomorrow spent all day and still haven't gotten any closer

 

[thepumpguysc]

How do u know u have ether in the bottle.??
1 more thing.. letting the machine sit that long might have frozen the metering valve or pumping plungers inside the pump.??
I think your GOING TO HAVE TO pull the top cover off the pump..
While your resting, google>> RoosaMaster metering valve.. THAT will give u an idea of what your looking for.
Its those 3 screws on top holding the cover on.. but that return line is gonna give u problems..
When I have a line stuck like that.. some love taps w/ a hammer & heat from a propane bottle will loosen it up..
U GOTTA be careful w/ that propane..
I THINK I WOULD just ring the line off & buy another.. than take the chance of burning my machine to the ground.!!

 

[Delmer]

you have two problems, it's not cranking fast enough for long enough, and there's no fuel coming out.

It cranks fine for a second or two in each video. To ME, that sounds like your battery charger is tripping at that point, you can test that by taking the battery inside where it's warm over night, leaving the charger on all night, then putting it in the next time you want to try it, but don't put the charger on the battery, just start it with the battery and see if it turns good for a second or two and then slows way down, or what happens. You could try the same with the jumper cables, try it with and without the cables, then repeat so you know if the battery is draining fast. It should crank like the first second for 10-20-30 seconds until the battery loses power, or the starter goes up in smoke, which it may have already, don't know.

The other issue is no fuel out of the injection pump. Turn the key on, you get 12V at the injection pump right? disconnect that wire and touch it back to the stud, you should hear and feel a click, does it click?

The other things to check are if the pump is turning, the ring under that cover that you took off. Or the inlet tube removed, and see if the fuel sucks down and out the return on it's own.

Then if the metering valve is stuck, you can take the cover off after you get that return tube off. I'd cut that return 2-3" up from the joint and splice in a rubber hose, it's already crimped pretty good, you could probably flare another piece of the tube and use that instead of the crimped part. you can also let it click over and over, or hold power to it and whack the pump with a screwdriver handle.

Next time you try, it wouldn't hurt to make sure the throttle is all the way to high, and the engine is warm with a block heater.

 

[Vetech63]

This thread looks promising!

 

[comet424]

ok ill fiddle with it tomorrow as its getting dark...

I was trying earlier.. I took the bleeder valve off the fuel filter and cranked.. and fuel came up so the mechanical pump is pumping..

and I tried a few times now to crank and little bit of fuel comes out the return line and air bubbles..

it be nice to get the battery out but with a hernia and by myself that battery is a boat anchor in the floor as I don't wanna put ti back in until it starts...

but ill try with the battery charger off and give it 10 min and try to start to see if it starts fast.. ya brand new battery and I figured should start fast..you figure with size of this battery shouldn't have any issues...
ill try the full throttle.. too
and would a battery place be able to test if the battery is dropping amps fast??? as they tested in the store there read out said like 1000 or 1200 cranking amps

and in the one video above I showed me touching the power to the injector pump and you can hear it clicking... but ill try all this stuff in the morning well ill try one more time anyways with the charger off

and I know I have either as if watch it go through the tube.. and if I put too much the engine wont turn.. so then I let it sit 10 20 min don't need it blowing up

 

[comet424]

so I went to plug the block heater in well she burned out never used it before anyways in winter.. just a 1 second ether button and she fired up...
so I took the charger off and tried it this is the video

I gave it 10 min intervals.. and tried again 3rd time trying to start the battery just died..
like what BS is these big batteries figured they supposed to last long time cranking.. I going to take it to the starter guy see if he can test it??

so I put the battery I used to have in there a marine deep cycle battery.. it turned fast then slow and then died its a feew years old... tried it twice.. tis like starts fast then dies down... gonna put the charger to it also over night at 2amps

and the exhaust smells like diesel but just wont frigin fire.. well I quit for the night and ill google that info you guys mentioned above

 

[Delmer]

What do you mean "it fired up" ?

Block heater burned up? how could you tell? is the coolant visible in the radiator?

So the starter spun fast a second even without the charger, that means the charger wasn't causing it to slow when it tripped. Another battery cranked fast for a second then slowed. So it could be loading up the engine with hydraulics, transmission, completely plugged exhaust? not making a lot of sense, but narrowing it down.

We know the mechanical transfer pump is working, that video showed it well also. We don't know if the pump inside the injection pump is turning, or if the metering valve is stuck. having sat since May, you could assume the metering valve is stuck and open it up like thepumpguy said. Easy enough to remove the fuel inlet tube and crank it to see if it pumps also.

 

[comet424]

fired up means started.. like if you ever watch nascar they will say fire up these engines

ya block heater is burned up cooked defunked cuput broken.. doesn't heat.. I can tell by the galvanized cyclinder not heating up after 10-15 min not getting hto as they are 1500 watt external heater
ya coolant is visible in the rad

dunno what you mean by completely plugged exhaust.. I know I mentioned I can smell the diesel exhaust when it cranks
I did the hydraulic tests the engine didn't speed up or slow down stayed constant when cranking and lifting the bucket same time or cranking and turning the wheel

ya I googled the pump and found a video

talks about removing it i see that the metering arm moves on a pivot to turn it back and forth
and its easy to repair these it seems. i spent over 500 bucks when i had it done like 10 yrs ago i could done myself doesnt seem that hard but then again there was no youtube videos on it..
but ill take that cover over and run a start switch so i can crank it over while standing at the pump
ill do that uin the morning but i didnt think the meterinv valve could get stuck as its pulled and pushed to turn it least what it looked like in video another video told me it spins in a circle so ill see tomorrow

 

[Vetech63]

I'm getting that Tracing feeling.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yeah, they're EASY.. everybody rebuilds their own..

With the pump still on the engine..
Start w/ the side window removal, just to get the fuel level down inside the pump, so u can see what your looking at.
Next, do as Delmer said & cut the return line.. & remove the top cover..
DO NOT BREAK THE SCREWS.!!!
LOOK FOR small BLACK plastic pieces, tucked into the corners of the pump housing..
IF u see them, theres no sense in going any further, the insides have come apart & the pump needs to be repaired.
But.. as long as your in there, check to see if the MV is stuck..
That's about all u can do from there.. Put the cover back on & remove the fittings from the top cover & try to BLEED IT..

 

[Vetech63]

Yeah, they're EASY.. everybody rebuilds their own..

Lmao...….so true!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Word of CAUTION.. IF u take the top cover off.. & find a stuck MV & unstick it..
AND u have a "starter button" hooked-up & u use it.. with the TC removed..
IF the machine starts.. u have no way to shut it down.. because u removed the shut down solenoid.!!!
Fuel will FLY EVERYWHERE & freak u out..
& you'll have to reach inside the pump, grab the MV & move it to the shut-off position.. NOT fun..
After THAT.. you'll hafta go change your clothes.. {ALL your clothes}.. Lol

 

[GregsHD]

I still think the hydraulic pump is loading up, go to the left side of the front pump, is there a little T screw on the top? Screw it down to destroke the pump, once running back it out again.

Also the clutch pedal has a hinged stop on it that contacts the floor plate, flip it up and push the clutch all the way down to disconnect the engine from everything when cranking, once running, immediately let it up and flip the stop back down.

 

[Delmer]

sure does seem like something is loading up, doesn't it Greg. It always starts spinning fast, then slows dramatically. I struck out with all my suggestions on batteries etc. The backhoe bucket tilt is a good one to try while cranking, big long cylinder that doesn't have any weight on it in the air. The loader won't drop the pressure because of the priority valve. Who knows what's going on with the steering, there's still weight on the steering too.

It still has an injection pump issue too.

 

[Clawed Backster]

Multiple issues can sure make diagnosis difficult.