dealing with dementia/alzheimer customers

[Tenwheeler]

I had a similar situation but not nearly as bad. The man would order the same thing from three different companies. Get his mark.
Told the son I am going to Email you everything he wants something before I do it weather you want it or not.
Then you have a record the man accepted or ordered it. Also you have a record you informed another member of the family and are not acting on your own.
I helped him as long as he was able. It was challenging at times.

 

[Randy88]

Small town nowhere America, everyone thinks they know everyone's business.

This customer now with memory issues mainly due to a stroke, is a life time friend of one of the last customers who died after battling alzheimers for years, so bad at the end, they had him restrained in a ward and on watch 24/7 and he knew nobody, not even his own name.

About a decade before that customer was diagnosed he did a land trust of sorts, nothing I'd ever heard of the way it got done, the kids took over the land before he died and made all the decisions, I was told, thought it was cut and dried, iron clad, apparently the kids all did too the way they fought and argued. Long story short, the "chosen" son was to get the lions share, maybe 6 million in land and assets, and what pissed off everyone else in the family.

The "chosen" son was a mooch and leach, who'd never pay anyone, never had all his life, the last job I did, was for the mother, one sibling and the chosen son, equal shares to be paid from each equally, not my idea, their's, really long story short, the son took the money to pay me out of his mothers account, thinking she'd never know, she found out, I was paid in full and how it was done and about 8 months later she died.

I'd have paid good money to be at the reading of that will, but found out later how it all went down, the mother was upset over how her son had taken her money to pay me, so she somehow cut him out cold, his lions share went down to the 20 acres we were doing the work on last and a note to her son, "hope it was worth it love mom". I found out because the other kids had no clue what it meant and were shell shocked it could even happen, the son was beyond upset, hired all sorts of lawyers and in the end, had to pay them with no inheritance but the 20 acres he had to sell to pay his lawyers.

Fast forward to this ordeal, and this son, who's aware of how his dads best friend handled his estate and what that mother did to that son, not so sure since he's in line to get the lions share is going to step too hard out of line to take over and toss his dad off the throne, without using extreme diplomacy with his mother, just a hunch and apparently as of today, he's not gotten it from her, again just guessing.

As of today, I'm not legally bound to do anything, have no contract, thought maybe a month ago I should have something in writing, today glad I didn't get it in writing, because I'm not legally obligated to do a thing for anyone. I've thought this out a dozen ways since it started, still not sure I fully understand it all or what to do about it or if I made a huge mistake somewhere along the line, but the more thinking I've been doing on this, the less eager I am to sign a contract with anyone in the future. If I'd be bound with a contract either before or after his stroke, I'd be forced to do the work and deal with EVERYONE till it got done for as long as it took, preventing me from doing other work elsewhere, not to mention liable for delays and everything that comes along, this way I could just pack up and leave and wait for the dust to settle.

 

[kshansen]

Randy88,
All I can say is I'm glad I and my siblings come from a somewhat modest family.

When parents did up their wills many years ago my brother was not one of the executors of the estate, just me and my sister the youngest of the three. Reasoning was at that time he was in the Air Force so would not be available to handle things. He was told of this at the time and agreed 100%. As it turned out parents lived to several years after he retired from twenty years in the service!

Mom was last to go and none of us had need or desire for family home so that was sold then all other assets were put in one account and simply divided by three after lawyer was paid. Everyone is still friends! Guess it has a lot to do with how we were raised.

 

[hosspuller]

The land next to me is tied up because the two heirs can't agree. So, I wrote our will to have a nephew be a tie breaker between the two daughters if needed.

 

[Randy88]

Decades ago now, there was an old guy that died, very wealthy and in his will he stated he wanted to take his money [cash in the millions] with him in his coffin, but never stated how much or how little, so after the wake, everyone argued till dawn, finally came up with a solution, they'd put it all in, so they wrote out a check and tossed it into the casket with him. It sure would have been entertaining if that check was cashed wouldn't it??

As they say, when money is involved, everyone shows up, when bills are to be paid, not a sole to be found. These mega estates due to crazy land prices get to be something to watch, some of those would make a really good reality tv show or even a movie.

 

[AzIron]

Great grand parents estate still is not settled after 19 years cause the 2 kids now both well into there 80s can't divide it cause one might get more

Money and family can be terrible

There is a well to do farm family I know pretty well everyone of those kids would kill each other to get more when the parents kick the bucket

Best one I saw was the old man retired at 75 told his kids they could buy him out none would pony up all 3 of his sons and the one daughter worked for the business he closed the doors sent it all the iron to the auction walked away with millions donated over half of it all said about 15 percent of the money was left to be divided equally when it was all done the money was split and I hear the siblings get along ok

 

[DIYDAVE]

Hadda deal with similar situation, coupla years ago, Got a call offa craigslist ad, then another, went down to the place in question, it was a bush hogging job, met the elderly couple, I had questions in my mind, so I stewed over it a coupla days, applied the golden rule, and backed outta the job, I lost nothing... Its different, though, when you know and have done business with people, before. Might be worth it to ask your lawyer, if its a big $ customer...

 

[motoOzarks]

My granny spent her last years in Lockwood in a alzheimers ward. all I can say is he won't get better.
I know it sounds rude but sometimes you have to use their forgetfulness to your advantage.
Just say okay to his face then go about what you know needs done, he's going to forget anyways.
He may get anxiety at times, aggravated at himself and say some incorrect things, but he will forget the next moment.
If he gets belligerent say something off the wall to distract him, the next minute he won't remember.

 

[td25c]

About a decade before that customer was diagnosed he did a land trust of sorts, nothing I'd ever heard of the way it got done, the kids took over the land before he died and made all the decisions, I was told, thought it was cut and dried, iron clad, apparently the kids all did too the way they fought and argued. Long story short, the "chosen" son was to get the lions share, maybe 6 million in land and assets, and what pissed off everyone else in the family.
.

Yeah Randy , that sounds like a funky deal .

The " Trust " I'm talking about is designed to protect the real estate and it's assets from the people involved .

It separates them from it like a " firewall " .

People make mistakes & bad decisions . As we get older will have medical issues , get Alzheimer's to where we are not making good moves anymore . Could be anything ?

Or worse … End up in a nursing home for the remainder . Insurance drops ya for one reason or another …… Take a wild guess what they will come after for payment ?

Will be the land & whatever assets are on it .

As a feller gets older the less he has in his name the better .

That's where the Trust comes in . It's in another entity where it stay's in the family & continues on .


Old saying …" How do ya loose a paid for farm ?"

" When some fool comes along . "





I

 

[Randy88]

I was told another contractor pulled in to do some work but the wife told him to leave, as of yesterday nothing has been done since I left and its been really quiet for me, I think the whole family is busy dealing with a lot and have their hands full. I haven't asked many questions lately and the phone has quit ringing from those complaining I'm not done so they can work, so I'd guess things are on hold for now, for quite a few. Time will tell how this all plays out.

Was just at another place today looking at a job we're supposed to start shortly, the husband never said a word the whole time, but as I pulled out on the road a neighbor flagged me down to chat and asked if I saw that guys wife, I said no not today why, he then told me she's battling dementia and isn't good at all and to be aware, thanked him and asked how long its been and all he said was its come on fast and picking up speed tremendously and won't be long before serious changes are made.

As they say live today as if its your last, tomorrow you might not remember it anyhow and in a few years, nobody else will either.

The best quote ever I was ever told was by a local guy, passed on now, but for years he said the only thing you have in life is the fun you had along the way, nothing else your taking with you anyhow, the way this is going, most will be lucky if they can even remember the fun they did have along the way.

 

[Norwegian Steam]

I’ve dealt with this both in a previous career and in my personal life.
The sad truth here is that sooner or later you’re going to end up losing money unless you have a drastic change of heart about the “taking authority away” from him part.
You either need to work out something with the wife/son regarding legal authority to authorize work on his behalf or you need to walk away from this client. This sucks and it’s the ugly side of business.
If the cost of doing the work isn’t too high you may consider talking to your accountant about categorizing it as either charitable or “shrink/loss” so you can at least get some write off from it.

 

[Norwegian Steam]

Yeah Randy , that sounds like a funky deal .

The " Trust " I'm talking about is designed to protect the real estate and it's assets from the people involved .

It separates them from it like a " firewall " .

People make mistakes & bad decisions . As we get older will have medical issues , get Alzheimer's to where we are not making good moves anymore . Could be anything ?

Or worse … End up in a nursing home for the remainder . Insurance drops ya for one reason or another …… Take a wild guess what they will come after for payment ?

Will be the land & whatever assets are on it .

As a feller gets older the less he has in his name the better .

That's where the Trust comes in . It's in another entity where it stay's in the family & continues on .


Old saying …" How do ya loose a paid for farm ?"

" When some fool comes along . "





I

Unfortunately a trust can only protect the farm/assets if its an irrevocable trust, which is notoriously tough to get clients to sign for. They are essentially giving up all control over the money/assets. If it’s just a family/living/pour over trust the nursing home can drain it just like a bank account. Unfortunately in some states there are also what’s called Filial responsibility laws which means if dad goes into a nursing home and chews through all his assets and then continues living long enough to rack up a bill for a few more months or years, the nursing home can come after the children for the bill even if they didn’t agree to have him in the facility.
The only way to really protect the assets is through really complicated estate planning or getting long term care insurance.

 

[Randy88]

I voiced my opinion about estate planning and protecting assets once, from there its not my concern, many have long term care insurance, never asked specifically in this case and not sure its going to be an issue, with one stroke and his health history, the big one any day will end it all anyhow, so drawing this out for years isn't going to happen unless he gets a miracle, I know doctors have already told him there's nothing they can do for him about stroke prevention, so their working on other aspects and doubt those will help much. Its about like putting a bandaid on an severed limb, too little too late kind of ordeal.

To be honest, I figured I'd have had a call by now letting me know he's passed away, sad way to view it, but its literally how this will end. I highly doubt the family will have time to seek any legal route to be honest before its all over anyhow.

As for writing this client off, that's up the wife and one son and how it proceeds in the future, for now, I am done and have moved on, now its just a wait, watch and see ordeal.

 

[kshansen]

Sad thing to have to deal with Randy.
A couple friends of ours are going through a similar thing of sorts. His mom who is in her 90's just had a stroke and despite there being 9 siblings our friend's wife is the health care proxy even though the majority of the siblings live close by the mom.

To add to it this couple are in the process of buying a new house to replace one they just sold and he is an over the road trucker who at the best is only home on weekends. We are trying to give them as much support as we can.