D8R hot trans?

[Robert0769]

No. Only coolant analysis has two levels - 1 & 2. Normally a Level 1 is done every 500-1000 hours and a Level 2 every 2-4000 operating hours.
Approximately how many gallons of fuel were you burning in a typical day..? The normal way is to relate how many gallons of fuel are burned for every quart of top-up oil added, provided that the engine has no visible external oil leaks.
Testing the implement pressure is not as simple as it is on some machines. The test points are under the floor and you need to remove both the operator seat and the floor panel to access them. See the illustration below. If you want a full procedure send me a PM with your email address.
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Roughly 100-110 gallons of fuel a day to 3/4 a gallon of oil

 

[Nige]

So that works out to approximately 35 gallons of fuel per quart of top-up oil.
Anything less than 60 gallons of fuel per quart of oil is classed in the "investigate the cause" part of the chart, so your engine is burning somewhere close to double the amount of oil that it should be per gallon of fuel burned if it was in good shape.
The oil is not going into the coolant based on the results of the coolant analysis. So I would guess that the engine is starting to get "tired", and the oil will be going past the piston rings and up the exhaust stack, and the engine is coming towards the point where it will need to be overhauled.

 

[Robert0769]

Take a wrench with you and while you're there pull the breaker relief valve off the top of the tank and see if you can a) suck air through it, and b) blow air through it. You should be able to do the first but not the 2nd if it's in good shape. If it looks or tests the least bit suspicious, the Part # is 191-5439. they are supposed to be part of a 2000hr PM, but I'm willing to bet yours has never ever been changed.

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I can suck and blow through the relief valve. Blowing is harder but I can.

I did see 3 wires going to the control handle for raising and lowering the blade, they broke off when I touched them. I think this is for the trigger though and nothing to do with raising and lowering the blade. The blade still twists strong. I'll reconnect the wires if I can

 

[Nige]

The specification of the breaker for opening under pressure is 25psi. Unless you can blow that much (normal humans can blow around 1psi give or take) the breaker valve is foobarbed. I suggest that you replace it.

 

[Robert0769]

The specification of the breaker for opening under pressure is 25psi. Unless you can blow that much (normal humans can blow around 1psi give or take) the breaker valve is foobarbed. I suggest that you replace it.

The relief valve would cause the blade to not go up correct?

What do you think about those wires? Probably nothing to do with the blade right?

 

[Nige]

Can you take photos of the broken wires, or at least give some idea of colours and/or numbers. Every wire has a number marked down the outside of it at about 6" intervals. That will help identify what their function is.

The purpose of the relief valve is to create 25psi of pressure in the hydraulic tank so that when the machine is at operating temperature oil is pushed into the implement pump. If the RV is not working as designed the pump has to suck oil, not have oil pushed into it. This will affect pump performance and could potentially affect the speed at which the cylinders move. A new RV is about $150, and your existing one is toast either way.

Question: Your problem is that the blade goes up and down more slowly than it should. If you get the blade half-way up and stop, then try to tilt the blade to the left or the right, does the tilt function also work slowly, or does it work at normal speed..?

 

[Robert0769]

Can you take photos of the broken wires, or at least give some idea of colours and/or numbers. Every wire has a number marked down the outside of it at about 6" intervals. That will help identify what their function is.

The purpose of the relief valve is to create 25psi of pressure in the hydraulic tank so that when the machine is at operating temperature oil is pushed into the implement pump. If the RV is not working as designed the pump has to suck oil, not have oil pushed into it. This will affect pump performance and could potentially affect the speed at which the cylinders move. A new RV is about $150, and your existing one is toast either way.

Question: Your problem is that the blade goes up and down more slowly than it should. If you get the blade half-way up and stop, then try to tilt the blade to the left or the right, does the tilt function also work slowly, or does it work at normal speed..?

At all times the ripper and blade tilt work strong and good.

Before a drain and fill the blade went up normal and strong. After the drain and fill the blade does not want to go up. If I go up, stop half way then try going up again it fails.

To answer your question, if I go up and stop half way the tilt still works perfectly

 

[Robert0769]

Here's a picture of the wires on the blade control

I don't think they have anything to do with the up and down function

 

[Nige]

I agree. The end of the bulldozer control handle has been replaced at some time with one that contains the (red) trigger switch used on a machine with dual tilt cylinders to tip the blade forwards and backwards. Your machine does not have dual tilt, or at least it was not built with it.

If the blade tilt function is working fine then it would appear as though there are no issues with either the oil level or the oil flow from the pump. I'm now starting to wonder whether when you drained or refilled the oil something that was stuck in a corner somewhere has now moved and is now either blocking something mechanically or hydraulically. First up, does the blade control lever move as far as it's supposed to backwards and forwards (blade up or down), or at least move the same distance as it moved before you changed the oil..?

 

[Robert0769]

I agree. The end of the bulldozer control handle has been replaced at some time with one that contains the (red) trigger switch used on a machine with dual tilt cylinders to tip the blade forwards and backwards. Your machine does not have dual tilt, or at least it was not built with it.

If the blade tilt function is working fine then it would appear as though there are no issues with either the oil level or the oil flow from the pump. I'm now starting to wonder whether when you drained or refilled the oil something that was stuck in a corner somewhere has now moved and is now either blocking something mechanically or hydraulically. First up, does the blade control lever move as far as it's supposed to backwards and forwards (blade up or down), or at least move the same distance as it moved before you changed the oil..?

I was thinking the same thing, I changed the oil and filter because I was getting a new bypass light so maybe it was something lodged in a corner that when drained went to the bottom of the tank just to tease me.

The actual control does move forward and backwards as it always has, full motion. I was hoping to have Cat test the flow since they know exactly where to look but it looks like they're going to miss the trans oil change this Friday as well. I called them twice today and they keep saying they'll send another quote and schedule me but haven't yet. They did find the oil samples they misplaced last week so hopefully we'll have a report for the trans and hydraulic fluids as well as metal shavings soon. They did say there is clutch material and metallic shavings, but that's all they can tell me so far.

 

[Robert0769]

Got the sos samples back.

First picture is hydraulic oil.

Second and third are both Trans, maybe they sent the same thing twice

 

[John C.]

You might want to check the quick drop valves on the top ends of the lift cylinders. I've had one or the other stick open and do what you are describing.

 

[Robert0769]

You might want to check the quick drop valves on the top ends of the lift cylinders. I've had one or the other stick open and do what you are describing.

Thanks for the tip! I'll check them out, how would I make sure they're working correctly? I'll try looking on google

 

[Robert0769]

You might want to check the quick drop valves on the top ends of the lift cylinders. I've had one or the other stick open and do what you are describing.

Found a lot of info on how they work and such, no info on how to troubleshoot them. Google is saying on the D8R series 2 dozers the quick drop valve is under the black box on the top front of the dozer over the radiator. I've been itching to open it up, maybe it was a sign haha. Just gotta figure out what to do after. More google

 

[John C.]

The ones I'm familiar with were just a piston assembly in the valve block on the top of the cylinders. When you put full pump flow to drop the blade, the pistons would shift and allow rod oil to flow directly to the piston side of the cylinder and it would gravity feed down. Usually something was broke in the cylinder and stuck in the valve. I think those machines also had the poppet valves in the pistons than would contact the top of bottom of the cylinders and allow oil to bypass around. You might check a part drawing to see what is in the piston, the drop valve and that black box you are talking about.

 

[Nige]

Maybe this will help. I've seen it before where a lump of something got jammed in the spool of the QD valve, but in that case the blade lift function quit working completely. Remove the tin box over the top of the assembly and start looking under the two covers #9 & #10. Anything that is wrong with it should be pretty obvious.

 

[Nige]

Oil analysis results. The first result is apparently hydraulic because it states oil viscosity is 10W. However the actually measured viscosity (12.2) is more like a 30 than a 10W. Silicon is high at 15, ISO Code is 22/13 which is relatively-speaking "dirty". If this was the oil that was drained then resample in 250 hours and see how the new oil is performing.
The second and third results are in a sense duplicates. One contains the same results that are on the other. Again there is elevated silicon and particle count plus aluminium, iron, etc. No need for immediate panic but you'll have to keep sampling to establish a trend. It could be nothing more than wear caused by the high levels of silicon (dirt). Clean that up and it may be all that's required. It may require more oil & filter changes to get things cleaned up.

 

[Robert0769]

Oil analysis results. The first result is apparently hydraulic because it states oil viscosity is 10W. However the actually measured viscosity (12.2) is more like a 30 than a 10W. Silicon is high at 15, ISO Code is 22/13 which is relatively-speaking "dirty". If this was the oil that was drained then resample in 250 hours and see how the new oil is performing.
The second and third results are in a sense duplicates. One contains the same results that are on the other. Again there is elevated silicon and particle count plus aluminium, iron, etc. No need for immediate panic but you'll have to keep sampling to establish a trend. It could be nothing more than wear caused by the high levels of silicon (dirt). Clean that up and it may be all that's required. It may require more oil & filter changes to get things cleaned up.

I was going to have the trans oil changed again after 30 hours to see if more metal is in the screen and also put the missing torque converter screen on. Is there any reason I should wait for another hundred or two hours before l adding the missing torque screen? The screen is important right?

 

[Mobiltech]

The screen is fairly coarse and only stops large particles. Usually if there is debris in it something in the torque is failing . In that case you’re into rebuilding pump and torque anyway.

I guess you could get starter or gear failure parts in it too.

 

[Robert0769]

The screen is fairly coarse and only stops large particles. Usually if there is debris in it something in the torque is failing . In that case you’re into rebuilding pump and torque anyway.

Yes this is the first oil change since I bought it so unknown when the last time it was changed. When I drained the torque it had no particles but that doesn't mean the particles when downstream somewhere.

It would be wise to put the missing screen in so I can change the oil in 250-500 hours and then see if there's new particles in the screen correct? If there's no screen I can't tell if there are particles