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D8 track Depreciation? How to account for it? Pricing?

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by D8HCattle, Dec 24, 2021.

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  1. D8HCattle

    D8HCattle Active Member

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    A D8H with completely new undercarriage (track frames removed, rollers, idlers etc ), and new track sets.

    I’d like to pick up jobs with this machine, any operators previously and currently, care to share how they would quote a job? Also if you did account for track wear/depreciation how would that effect your cost/pricing?
    As far as trucking, that just get stapled on to the bill,…. Open to other opinions if there is a better way I’d greatly appreciate it.
    Thank you Merry Christmas.
     
  2. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    When I worked in the small coal mines I figured out the cost per hour to run through record keeping and experience. Once you have an idea of how many hours the undercarriage will last, it is just simple math and attention to the cost of replacement. In our operations using sealed track chain and pin and bushing turns at mid life, the undercarriage was good for at most 3,500 to 4,000 hours and at worst 2,500 to 3,000 hours. In those days it cost around $25,000 to purchase all the components and a weeks work for two people to replace it all. Figure $30,000 total cost and go from there. Now days you might be looking at twice that for a dealer to do the same job.
     
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  3. D8HCattle

    D8HCattle Active Member

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    Thank you! Yeah now it does cost more that for sure, and that’s if they can get the stuff. I’ve been lucky, either had it or it was available. I agree with your approach. Time to keep better records now that it may leave our farm. I appreciate your insight on the lifespan of the UC and having the bushings turned.
     
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  4. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Bushing turns now days may or may not make sense. It's just another factor in managing the use and cost of a machine.
     
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  5. D8HCattle

    D8HCattle Active Member

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    For me I’d have to have them shipped the next state over. Not sure anyone around here does that stuff anymore. Be about 3 hours away to get them to a track shop. Some local people I’ve talked to say they ran them for $400/hr plus trucking at first I was thinking that seemed high but then the price for the UC started to change my mind.
     
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  6. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    Here in the UK,I’ve decided 25 years ago that it’s not cost effective to turn bushes and pins on any D8 or D9 in my operation.
    However,I change out segments quite often in high abrasion conditions and am very happy with the extra life I get out of my bushings.
     
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  7. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    I'm going to state the not so obvious opinion, and that is you should be trying to sell that 8H, and looking for an 8N that isn't so long in the tooth. Not that the 8H is a bad tractor, it's just maintenance on a flat-track is basically unaffordable in this day and age, and parts might be getting few and far between. One breakdown with that old girl and you are backwards everything you have or might have made, plus likely more.
     
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  8. MattR

    MattR Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to think that way more and more with my ancient old stuff
     
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  9. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Maintenance on any high drive is a whole lot more than most any oval track. Engine parts for an H might be a problem but there were so many made that there should still be plenty of repairable used parts available. It would be a good idea to check into torque converter and transmission parts for the H. Final drive stuff and people with the experience to repair them would likely be the most obvious failure to kill a D8H. When you think about it though, there are people who buy and restore D2 machines all the time.
     
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  10. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Buying and restoring for playtime is not the same as hiring out. Not to mention the obvious fact that we are talking about a 40 ton tractor, not a 4.
     
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  11. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    No such thing as a D8N that isn't long in the tooth either.
     
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  12. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Like I said, I'm not trying to convince you of anything other than the plain and simple fact that if you lose a final on this old 8 in the middle of a job, you are going to be in trouble. A transmission swap in the field would be pretty straightforward on a high drive, and you don't have to worry so much about dead axles, sprocket presses, bevel gears, and people with the experience to accomplish the job.
     
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  13. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Completely agree, but still a better option IMO than any H.


    And I still run and like a 7G. I'm in the same boat.
     
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  14. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    Some good comments here chaps.
    I’ve owned lots of D8H and D8K tractors over the years and I love them.Parts are relatively simple and cheap to buy as there are loads of non oem manufacturers around selling them still.
    But,I sold my last 2 D8H tractors back in 2018.They we’re in sharp order and working around 500 clock hours every year with very few problems other than constant fiddling and tweaking with them.
    Any issues with finals and bevelcasings etc would immediately require highly skilled fitters with all the special tooling.These chaps are now an extreme rareity in the UK and are disappearing for ever.
    Also,some parts are now hard to source in a hurry.Years ago,there would be breakers yards all over the country with tons of old cat parts allways stocked.Today,they are almost gone.
    Our Cat dealers are not interested in helping out customers in any way like they were years ago and if you intend to run an old D8H seriously,then I would reccomend you buy at least one more as back up.
    I’ll tell you this……..running 2 old D8’s is a headache,but only running one is an absolute nightmare.
     
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  15. MattR

    MattR Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. It's finding qualified personnel to help. Final drives in particular.
     
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  16. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    I only run plant as abit of a sideline to get me out of the office,and I’ve had to move with the times to keep getting the sort of jobs I like.
    Almost nobody here in the UK has the intelligence to hire an old D8H and pull scraper that will bring their projects in well under budget.They simply can’t get past using a digger,dump truck and a D6 even though I can move their muck at upto half the price.They allways look at the fuel burn and nothing else.
    I only survived with the old d8 and boxes because I’ve been at it for 30 years and allways get enough work that I wanted.
    But,if I was looking to start up in the game today,an old D8H would be the very last machine I would buy.
    Sorry for the negativity,but that’s my opinion
     
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  17. D8HCattle

    D8HCattle Active Member

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    That’s a great point, I might add though… I’m my maybe small group of D8H owner/operators/service(r’s) I have not heard of the H/K failing like that. Yeah the oval track is old. But still has it’s pluses over high tracks, Deere still runs oval on their biggest dozers. It’s a simpler design and I think historically there are less Catastrophic failures if serviced to spec. There is a good point though in selling now and moving to something modern, and not as big and clunky. I’m kinda a sucker for the H and K. I think Cat made these very well, if kept up with servicing and addressing maintenance issues as they come and not ignoring, the H/K is a great reliable dozer.
     
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  18. D8HCattle

    D8HCattle Active Member

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    Thank you! Nice looking matching on your profile. Do you charge differently for jobs that deal with Rock and ripping vs, jobs that don’t?
     
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  19. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    These days I have much newer Cat dozers that I use on certain jobs if I fancy doing abit to earn some money.
    They are in good order and considered relatively new.As a result,I get frequent enquiries and turn lots of deceant contracts down.This was never the case with the old D8’s.Apart from existing customers,very little new work ever came knocking on the door.
    I suspect the OP may have the same problem if he was looking for hire work for his old D8.It’s one thing using them on your own contracts (they are pretty good) but another thing entirely trying to attract new hire customers
     
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  20. D8HCattle

    D8HCattle Active Member

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    Definitely seems to be the case running and old equipment. I think most people like to just walk around old H’s and talk about the glory days rather then hire them out :).
     
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