1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

D6c cat loss of oil pressure

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by Steve.ahlgren85, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. DB2

    DB2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    997
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB Canada
    Just to say a temperature gauge won’t register correctly if it’s not immersed in fluid. As to the rest of the story I’ve seen engines severely overheated that never melted pistons. To me it would seem the timing had to be way out of adjustment for an engine to fail that drastically.
     
    oarwhat likes this.
  2. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    Yes, I would tend to agree with you. I really don't think that the cause of the engine failure has been found yet.
     
    Tinkerer and 51kw like this.
  3. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    8,390
    Location:
    Canada
    The cause is very clear. Zeigler tried to cut corners and this is the result! Steve, you need to be telling this to your lawyer not just going back and forth on here. The sooner the better.
     
    Tarhe Driver, 51kw and mikebramel like this.
  4. spitzair

    spitzair Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    Squamish BC (Home), Slave Lake, AB (Work)
    This is just my thoughts but it seems to me the more Steve talks to this Service Manager, the more the guy is making it obvious that they didn't do anywhere near what they should have done to make sure Steve gets a reliable and serviceable machine back, and Steve can use all of this as cannon fodder when it comes time to take them to the cleaners!
     
  5. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,225
    Occupation:
    Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
    Location:
    Moose Lake, MN
    I know that Cat in St. Cloud has some knowledgeable mechanics. I suspect that they don't like this any better than anybody else. I wonder how much of this is management telling mechanics not to do any more than was absolutely necessary. So far there doesn't seem to be anybody that works there that professes to know anything about this machine. They have seen it setting there forever and know nothing about it. I think they have been warned of "patient confidentiality" and there is a stick being held above their heads.
     
    DARO and 51kw like this.
  6. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    I know that they have some very professional mechanics there but I have called in a professional mechanic from caterpillar to do an expert analysis of the engine failure cause. I just don't think that the engine should have failed ,melted pistons twice, in an hour and a half running time .They will have it done this week .
     
  7. Hobbytime

    Hobbytime Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    usa
    the one issue I have with that is he is a cat employee, will he give a truthful explanation or one that is favorable for the dealership...you should tell cat that you may have your own mechanic or you should pay one that you know to be there with the cat mechanic as he goes through that engine to keep him honest and have a pair of eyes working for you..
     
    Tarhe Driver, DoyleX and 51kw like this.
  8. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    8,390
    Location:
    Canada
    Obviously the service manager doesn't know who the "very professional mechanics" are or your machine would have been fixed properly. I agree with having a qualified independent mechanic checking it out or at least inspecting it along side the Cat mechanic so you have your own expert opinion. That said, I believe the dealership is still at fault. You paid them to diagnose and fix your engine and they failed to do that. Who are you supposed to go to who is more qualified than the Cat dealer?

    Has your lawyer written to them yet? Send a letter from your lawyer to show them you are serious! I can just see it now... well the Cat mechanic said it was because this and that and the owner should have noticed this and it's not the dealers fault, etc., etc, etc. Then you're going to be second guessing everything you did and thinking it's somehow your own fault and the dealer should be let off the hook. Then there will be 1000 more posts where you're looking for opinions on what to do. I as well as many others have been trying to guide you in the right direction but it is getting redundant. Sh-t or get off the pot. I don't think there's much more we can tell you.
     
    Tones, kshansen and 51kw like this.
  9. etd66ss

    etd66ss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    You know, sometimes family can be a priority...

    And, my GOD this thread!

    I think this CAT dealer is not alone these days when it comes to guys like us who own antique CATS and not fleets with $100,000's at our disposal for repairs. We are back burner customers who WILL be taken advantage by dealerships full of clowns who don't have the skills to work on this older equipment.

    I knew Bob Ont very well, he was my personal go to guy for my D6C and 225, so much knowledge is being lost with the passing of guys like him, I'm not sure there will be enough knowledge around in ~20 years to keep these machines running. The guys at the dealerships today look upon them like antikytheran devices. No ports to plug in the computer diagnostic equipment to tell them exactly which widget needs replacing. No intuitive sleuthing to find the root cause.

    These guys may as well just ask, would you like fries with your boat anchor 3306?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
    Hobbytime and 51kw like this.
  10. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    8,390
    Location:
    Canada
    Bob/Ont was the guru on the older Cats. He helped me numerous times with my 931B and made it very easy to understand. He was always willing to share his expertise and knowledge. I hope Steve's lawyer sent a letter and Steve comes back to give us an update. He just needs to be firm in his position and put some pressure on the dealer instead of second guessing himself all the time after talking with the so-called service manager.
     
  11. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    10,500
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    The said thing is too many think that that computer with ET loaded on it WILL answer all the questions. In reality in most cases it only points you in the direction to go looking. You still should be able to know how to test things to confirm what the real problem is that is causing the malfunction.

    Of course you can just replace one component at a time till the problem disappears! But could be the actual problem was just a poor connection that cleaned itself when you unplugged the old relay or sensor and plugged the new $367.95 new one in!

    But it now works and the customer is happy and the dealer got his money so everyone thinks the computer solved the problem!
     
    Ronsii and 51kw like this.
  12. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,225
    Occupation:
    Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
    Location:
    Moose Lake, MN
    I think that good mechanics do know that the computer does only point them in the direction to look. That being said I also think that not all mechanics are good.
     
    Theweldor likes this.
  13. 51kw

    51kw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Any updates?
     
  14. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    Nothing new, I am going to meet with the product support guy on Monday to go over the results of the professional failure analysis report that is ready to be reviewed. We will see what they found !preliminary results of the engine failure was caused by an "air lock" in the engine resulting in the water temperature gauge to give an incorrect reading when in fact the engine was running much hotter than was indicted on the gauge.This causing the cylinders #1and#6 to fail prematurely on the second rebuild done by Ziegler caterpillar. We will see!!
     
  15. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    They also said that the water pump is shot and was not circulating the water through the system property ,also radiator 50%plugged and needs to be cored .
     
  16. 51kw

    51kw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Minnesota
    None of which are problems of yours. Radiator should not have made a difference until you put it to work. Air lock is their problem, they filled the system. They should have checked for proper circulation in the test run.
     
  17. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    8,390
    Location:
    Canada
    Isn't it common knowledge with Cat engines (especially D8H's) that you have to make absolutely certain to bleed any air out of the cooling system when filling it. I think some engines even have bleeders to help with this. I think they are still grasping at straws and if they couldn't even make sure the cooling system was properly bled they have no business working on a lawnmower engine let alone a Cat. UNBELIEVABLE!!!! This is ABSOLUTELY their fault and they owe you a proper running engine with no costs to you. Get your lawyer on it right away. I've heard of incompetence but this takes the cake!
     
    Tarhe Driver and 51kw like this.
  18. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,673
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    Adept Ape who works at a Cat dealer has a video on vacuum filling engine coolant, which should work for anything no matter how hard to bleed. It is apparently the industry standard now for EGR coolers and whatnot.

    I agree a 50% plugged radiator is not going to overheat on a less-than-fully loaded tractor until a lot of dirt is moved in a short time. Probably never on a machine that is used for fine grading, brush, etc. I just got back from a job with a generator with NO FAN and it took it a good 15 minutes for the bottom hose to even start to get warm under medium load.
     
    Tarhe Driver and 51kw like this.
  19. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    649
    Location:
    Peoria, IL
    I've filled a million Cat engines with coolant using a bucket and a funnel. Never had an issue. Run it until the thermostats open and you're good to go.

    This expert is not inspiring confidence.
     
  20. etd66ss

    etd66ss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    Wow, from the initial findings, I don't see how Steve should be on the hook for any of this Ziegler CAT debacle, or should we call it a boondoggle?