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D6c cat loss of oil pressure

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by Steve.ahlgren85, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. oldirt

    oldirt Senior Member

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    steve, listen to welder dave. he is right. your mistakes ENDED when you delivered that tractor into their "professional" care. remind them of that when you tell them you expect your tractor back running as they PROMISED.
     
  2. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

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    Yea ,I am on board with that. The fact that I lost 3 weeks working time last fall before freeze up should not be forgotten.
     
    51kw likes this.
  3. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

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    Hobby time, I don't quite understand fully your post. Are you saying that they are responsible for the radiator recore expense, camshaft and lifters replace ,leaving me with the original bill on first rebuild??I am ok with the first bill only. They have to remember that I had to drag the machine across our field with our big tractor, load it up ,time lost not finishing the job last fall ,that has to be accounted for also .
     
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  4. 51kw

    51kw Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly it Steve. That stuff should have been caught by them at the FIRST rebuild they did. That is why you had it taken to Zeigler. A CAT certified shop! You wanted a proper rebuild, not a so so rebuild by a fly by night shop.
    As so they should have checked EVERYTHING as they would have in any other rebuild. You deserve a running tractor. That is what you paid for.
     
  5. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Expecting them to recore the radiator at their expense is just wishful thinking. You would have been charged for it if they did things correctly the first time. If it were mine I would pay for it. Provided I could get a fair settlement in this fiasco. Just my opinion.
     
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  6. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

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    I agree but what would you call a fair settlement? I have lost a lot of running time with this machine .Another thing ,every time I asked for an update on my machine ,I was the one who had to call and inquire. Even though I asked for periodic updates, they would never call or email .
     
  7. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Even manufacturer's original warranty on a new machine specifically excludes loss of use so I don't think you can expect to get anything there. You can certainly mention these facts though.

    If you needed an engine rebuild then you pay for an engine rebuild, cam and lifters then you pay for cam and lifters (unless their screwup tore them up), you need a new radiator you pay for a new radiator but that is as far as it goes, you don't need to pay twice for anything. There should be a pretty good benchmark for how much each of those "should have cost".

    Additional transportation cost you can argue and fight over, I don't know about that.
     
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  8. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Fair settlement for you may be a bit different for me. It is how we see things.
    If it were me and I needed a dozer and was in the situation you are, I would consider what it is going to cost me to get it home with a warranty on the engine.
    Keeping in mind all the self inflicted expenses that were not Ziegler's creation.

    Knowing that number I would start looking for anther comparable D6 and what that is going to cost to get it delivered to my farm. Again keeping in mind the new/ used will probably be buyer beware. It could be another money pit. That is how I would bring the ordeal to an end.
    I am guessing that getting the dozer back from Ziegler is what I would end up doing.
     
  9. Hobbytime

    Hobbytime Senior Member

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    NO....the only new expense to you should be the radiator and any labor directly related to fixing the radiator, anything failed by a clogged radiator is the dealers fault for not properly repairing and testing the dozer to make sure all is good....you are getting a ton of support from both guys in the industry and others that have businesses and have dealt with these issues of having equipment repaired and all of them are on your side that you have a good running dozer coming to you from this dealer at no more expenses other than the radiator and some minor related costs....the dealer is already backtracked on what they want just with the resistance you have given them so far, enter your lawyer and all the proof they screwed up and it seems cat corparate is even on your side from the comments you provided from him, so for a little more aggravation you should end up on top of this in the end, dont give up and try to explain to the wife all is not lost and the flower is about to bloom in your favor..
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  10. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Very often I would at least crank over an engine with in shut down mode with valve cover(s) off to see some oil flow before letting it start and also make sure I had around 30 psi on a good gauge before letting it fire up.

    The other option I did use at times, when it was available, was to connect a hose from an air powered oil pump to pre-lube an engine before even cranking it over!
     
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  11. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    It may have been missed but I asked yesterday if the cam and lifter charge was because they did not find them bad the first time they worked on the engine. If they delivered it to you they were in essence all the parts were in good usable condition at that time so if they are bad now I would say it is there fault for not catching the problem the first time.

    As for the radiator, yes that is your responsibility, but and it is a big BUT, you should not be forced to pay the dealer to re-core it! I would be checking around to find a radiator shop that can do the job for you. Darwin is only a bit west of the "Twin Cities" so I'm sure there are some good radiator shops near buy. It is very possible that a good radiator shop could clean the core and have it just as good as new. Even if it needs to be replaced the radiator shop could source a new core for much less than the Cat Dealer would charge.

    Heck just for fun give this outfit a call and see if they will quote you a price, I have not dealt with them but might at least give you an idea of what a core could be had for. If you were close to NY I would contact my local rad. shop.
    http://www.superiorcooling.co/radiator-core-for-caterpillar-3.html
     
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  12. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

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    Just don't buy an aftermarket radiator. I don't know if one is available, but they never fit or work right. Much better to recore yours.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  13. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

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    They didn't go that deep into it. It was sent out as in good working condition .They only noticed the camshaft and lifters problem after they tore it apart the second time .They looked into the failure deeper the second time it came back
     
  14. 51kw

    51kw Well-Known Member

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    Steve it is not your fault they did not catch it the first time. As kshansen said, it was returned to you with all internal parts deemed good by them. If they are no longer good it is on them. I agree on the radiator being your baby. I also agree that you can get it fixed MUCH cheaper on your own. At least it will not have their 15% markup.
     
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  15. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Okay did some looking online for you try calling these people seem to have a few very positive replies:

    Hillmyer Radiator Services Repair
    Auto Radiator Repair Service
    15302 43rd St SW
    (320) 286-2404

    Just outside of Cokato Minn!
     
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  16. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

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    Thanks, I have heard of them .I am going to call Ziegler caterpillar to get my radiator back to their shop .It is in Minneapolis right now. Thanks!
     
  17. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    They didn't go that far into it??
    You wanted a patch job?? so you got a patch job..
    NO warranty..
    That being said.. they should have noticed the over heat & oil pressure on the test run & notified you.
    IF you had said, "I'll take care of the radiator".. then thats on you.. BUT they didn't.. so that's on them..
    and every other problem the IT created..
     
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  18. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

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    If the motor has been overheated, and it seem very obvious it has, you need to check everything. The head and block should be checked for flatness. The head should be checked for cracks. Valves and seats need to be checked for cracks. The coolant passages in the block and head also need to be checked for obstructions. Sounds like you are getting cam bearings.

    Don't let them throw some liners and pistons in the things and ship it.
     
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  19. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I understand loss of use isn't covered by a warranty but often a loaner machine will be provided or some other kind of arrangement made if the machine will be tied up for an unusual length of time. Steve's dozer has been at the dealer for month's and month's and month's after their so called first attempt to repair it failed. That's why I think it's not too much to ask that the dealer covers the labor on the radiator. I think if Steve could pay under $2000 for the rad and have a properly running machine back on his farm would be reasonable.

    Several years ago the Cat dealer here wanted to try and break the union (parts guys are union) and all the parts were moved out of their warehouse and handled by a logistics company. When they handled parts internally they could tell you exactly when they should be in and track them all the way. Usually the next day if ordered before 4pm. When they transferred the parts department to the logistics company they couldn't give you any idea other than it could be next day or could be in 4 days, nobody knows for sure. One of their biggest customers (Sureway) was losing $50,000/day at one of their gravel crushing operations waiting on a piston for a 3412. I think it took about a week and 1/2 to get it. From what I heard they ate a lot of the cost of replacement parts after costing the customer hundreds of thousands in unnecessary downtime. The dealer went back to doing parts internally. Sureway is a huge customer but that doesn't mean the dealer shouldn't look after the small customer too.
     
  20. oldirt

    oldirt Senior Member

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    "Sureway is a huge customer but that doesn't mean the dealer shouldn't look after the small customer too"

    not in cat's book.. big money talks big no matter where you go.