1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

D6c cat loss of oil pressure

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by Steve.ahlgren85, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    I just don't see any way of taking them to court and winning. They would claim that they were not responsible for the radiator problem because they were repairing the rocker assembly as being the cause of the engine failure #1.I would be stuck with legal fees trying to sue a giant business that has a legal team of their own .I see nothing but a larger headache than what I have this morning!
     
  2. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    10,167
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    Well if that is what they are claiming they are dead to wrong as it has been said here a number of times THE ROCKER ARM PROBLEM DID NOT CAUSE THE FAILURE!

    If you do in fact make them a gift of this tractor and a pile of your money do not ever even look at buying another piece of Cat Equipment!

    Your picture is going to posted at that dealer with a heading saying SUCKER in big letters and the price for every part you want to buy will be three times what it should be. And heaven forbid if you need to call them for any kind of repair work. They will tell you that the broken door latch is what caused a total transmission failure and they will offer to take it off your hands and "ONLY" charge you transportation and $4,000.00!
     
    DoyleX, DMiller and 51kw like this.
  3. Hobbytime

    Hobbytime Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    usa
    I can imagine your grief , aggravation and marital strain you have gone through, but the worst is over, go consult an attorney even if you have to pay a few bucks , show him all the facts including a copy of this thread and let a lawyer decide if you have a chance or not on winning a legal battle with them, then you can make an informed decision...not to hit you below the belt, but you got great advice here that you discarded to the side and did it your way, if you go that route with a lawyer..well you know..but dont give up so fast...and if a lawyer says you have a very good chance of winning ask him if you only pay the lawyer if you win and about what the price will be, or at least have the lawyer send a letter to the cat dealer threatening legal action if they dont cover all the costs, worse case on that is if they say no and you can walk away knowing you tried...
     
    DMiller, kshansen and 51kw like this.
  4. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    3,291
    Occupation:
    Field Mechanic
    Location:
    Claremore, OK
    I wouldn't pay them a dime if they were keeping the machine. It's much better, based on my experience, to be the plaintiff and not the defendant. Go see a lawyer, explain things WITHOUT your predispositions that are undoubtedly influenced by the bull$hit Cat is feeding you. See what the lawyer says. A letter works wonders sometimes. I'd keep my $4,000 and use some of that for a lawyer. Cat ain't coming after you. Getting you to give them $ and your machine is like getting kicked in the nuts when you're already on the ground in pain.

    I know you want to wash your hands of it and I understand those feelings. However, there are occasions when you have to fight for what's right. Don't let them make a bit*h out of you. Hell I'll write the letter for ya. I'm from the firm WeFu*kem & How.

    The collective knowledge that attempted to help you navigate this nightmare has a combined experience of CENTURIES. Think about that. Let us help. What I flushed down the toilet this morning was smarter than the tech that worked on your machine. Don't back down!!
     
  5. 63 caveman

    63 caveman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2017
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    western Pa.
    I think I'm the "sucker", I read all 45 pages in disbelief. It's like a bad long movie with a bad ending.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  6. 51kw

    51kw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Minnesota
    As I have said before and others are saying now. You are being charged for THEIR incompetence! A lawyer consult will do wonders. Most will work on a contingency fee. They only get paid if you win. Listen to your gut, you have said that this doesn't seem right. There are no questions being answered. I hope you have saved any documents and emails sent by Chris. I would guess that there will be some lost documents on their part if this goes to trial. They will have to try and cover up their mistakes.
     
    DMiller and kshansen like this.
  7. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,825
    Location:
    The shore of the illinois river USA
    In my area a first time visit with a lawyer is usually free of charge.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  8. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,213
    Location:
    Canada
    I don't think a lawyer would work on a contingency fee in this case. They only do that in injury claims from what I can tell but it doesn't hurt to ask. Most will give a free consultation and to get a letter sent is probably in the 3-$500 range. Don't try to guess at what the dealer will use as their defence. They are the authorized Cat dealer and it's not like your machine is a brand new model and they've never had one apart. No, it's just one of the most popular engines Cat ever made with thousands of them out there. There is no excuse for them not checking everything out especially after the machine came to them because of a problem with the 1st rebuild. They should have gone through the entire engine, cooling system, oil system and everything else that relates to any kind of engine issues. If they would have fixed your machine properly and charged an extra $1000 or so to re-core the rad you would have been a happy camper. They are playing you as a fool. I don't think they'd want to go to court. A good lawyer finds an experienced independent mechanic or even gets a Cat mechanic or foreman from another dealer to explain what steps should be taken in determining what caused an (unusual) engine problem and these guys are SUNK! After a meeting in a lawyers office, they wouldn't want to go to court.

    Let me give you my own personal experience with something similar I went through. Sorry it's a little long. I purchased an older (75) GMC 6500 single axle dump truck several years ago. I paid a premium because it looked in fantastic shape and the seller said it had all new brakes. The seller even had a DOT inspection on it although it isn't required on a single axle truck under 33,000 GVW. Truck ran great and the box was like new. A couple month's later I got a job hauling sand to the local MX track. Everything was going great. I had hauled 39 loads no problem. On the 40th load heading back to the track, I turned on to the gravel road heading to the highway. I was speeding up going about 15 MPH when all of a sudden I heard a loud bang. I looked in the passenger mirror and thought I saw something fly in the ditch but I think it was just dust or something. I stopped and noticed the brake pedal was fluctuating and the truck wasn't stopping like it used to. The truck was loaded and I had about 15 miles to go mostly on back roads. I limped the truck to the track and dumped the load.

    Then I limped it in to a brake shop I did snow removal for. They were certified to do commercial vehicle inspections as well. They pulled it apart and the problem was obvious! The passenger side drum (hyd brakes) was almost split in 2 ! The hub was the only thing keeping it together. The brake pads were like brand new but the drums were 120% worn when measured with a drum micrometer. Further inspection showed the wheel bearings were also shot. $2000 later I had proper brakes. The brake pads were so new (99%) they were reused! I contacted a lawyer who assigned an articling student to my claim to save me some $$$. The seller and the company that did the inspection were sent letters. They said it was sold as is and they weren't liable, so a pre trial meeting was set up at the court house with a judge (to see if it could be settled) because they weren't prepared to offer me anything. My lawyer explained the problem and they (the seller had a lawyer) were trying to say it happened a couple month's after the inspection. (the inspection was a big mistake for the seller). I did one better... I put the broken drum in a box and took a small dolly to carry it. After some discussion and deniability I opened the box everyone was wondering about and pulled the drum out. The owner of the inspection shops jaw dropped to the ground. He said he'd never seen a drum split before. The seller knew him because the company the seller used to work at had their trucks serviced there. The owner then said he took the sellers word for it that the brakes were done. He thought the seller had a brother in law that was a HD mechanic and did the brakes. The shop I knew that did brakes said you never take someone's word for it and always pull at least one wheel off when doing an inspection. The manager of that shop was a good friend and offered to come to court if need be. We set up a meeting at my lawyers office and the sellers lawyer was again saying it happened a couple month's after the inspection and it was sold as is. The problem with that is that an inspection is good for a year and should note any potential issues that may need to be addressed in less than a year. It does not explain how you can have 99% pads and drums worn 120%. The shop that fixed my brakes also said a groove on the drum can usually be seen or felt from looking under the truck and is a good indication the drums are worn and the wheel should come off to inspect further.

    A couple days later the inspection company asked my lawyer if they could pay for the repairs in 2 payments. They could lose their inspection license. My student lawyer suggested I should get it all at once. I should have taken this offer. I did get $1800 though split between the seller and the inspection shop. I think I paid about $550 for the student lawyer so I did get $1300 of my money back which is certainly better than just walking away. I claimed the legal fee's on my taxes so a got a little bit more back.

    STEVE TALK TO A LAWYER!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
    kshansen and DMiller like this.
  9. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    3,291
    Occupation:
    Field Mechanic
    Location:
    Claremore, OK
    If we could get our hands on their training material I wonder what it says about proper procedure in a reman or O/H engine situation as far as what to check.....might be able to use their own info against them.....
     
    DoyleX, kshansen and DMiller like this.
  10. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,213
    Location:
    Canada
    All this stuff would be good in court. I don't think the dealer would want to go to court over problems they couldn't figure out in a common engine. I know when Finning (local Cat dealer) rebuilds an engine, everything is new in it including the oil pump even it appears to be good. I'm sure Cat does have a procedure and overhaul manual. Say it did go to court and they discussed the overheating. Wouldn't the 1st question be, Did you thoroughly check to make sure it wasn't a radiator or cooling system problem? I think they missed a bunch of steps and it's on them.
     
    Tinkerer and DMiller like this.
  11. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    I would really like to have NIGE weigh in on this,if he would one last time!
     
  12. DoyleX

    DoyleX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    568
    Occupation:
    Lever Puller, Gear Jammer, Pipe Twister
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I know Im calling my buddy at ziegler salvage monday morning!!!!

    Steve you still wont listen to a word any of us that live it everyday for life says. You got everything you had coming to be blunt
     
    51kw likes this.
  13. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,213
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes it would be nice if Nige weighed in. It's too bad Bob/Ont isn't still with us. Be interesting to see his take on this too since he worked at a large Cat dealer for many years. No offence at all meant to Nige but do none of the other opinions from experienced owners, operators and mechanics mean anything to you?
     
    Tinkerer and 51kw like this.
  14. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,324
    Occupation:
    Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
    Location:
    Sunny South Carolina
    Like I said> I've seen my old company "pay off" a lawsuit atleast 10x a year.. 10k in your pocket for just a letter.. AND they had to fix the equipment.. or at the VERY LEAST, reassemble it.
     
  15. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,631
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    LOL. OK I'm done! o_O
     
  16. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,985
    Occupation:
    Kinda Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    I suspect Nige has headed back into the bush for work, would not expect any comments from he for awhile.
     
  17. Steve.ahlgren85

    Steve.ahlgren85 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Darwin, mn.
    I
    Please, I mean no disrespect. I value all of you guys as being very knowledgeable .So please forgive me .I just wanted one more of the senior members of HEF to give his input. I, plus my wife are very hesitant to fight a legal fight with a corporate giant.
     
  18. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    3,291
    Occupation:
    Field Mechanic
    Location:
    Claremore, OK
    It only becomes a legal fight of that magnitude if you choose to do so. At this point you've thrown so much time and money at it throw a few hundred more at it in the form of a firmly written letter from a lawyer. I've been down this road several times. Letters often make them sit up and take notice that they may want to rethink their position. You've got NOTHING to lose in doing so. Don't think of it as David vs Goliath. It's right and wrong.

    Honestly their corporate lawyer that's on staff probably isn't very good or he'd be at a firm. He's not there to litigate he's there to make sure documents are drafted properly and to cover their a$$ when somebody is fired. (Sorry for assuming it's a he, could be a she or even an "it" these days) I sued a very large company years ago when trucking over about $50,000. It took me about 30 months but I got my money. Their staff counsel was not very bright nor were their employees and I had documentation of everything they denied. They tried to starve me out but I wasn't having it.

    More often than not legal matters are a nightmare. I'm in the middle of one now that's gone on over a year. I sued because I chose to, they're wrong and I'll get my $ at some point. In this case you'd be potentially suing them to keep what's yours and have it work the way it should have when you brought it to them. All of their excuses are straight up bull$hit. There are situations where it's wise to walk away. This is NOT one of them.
     
    mikebramel, 63 caveman and 51kw like this.
  19. CavinJim

    CavinJim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Missouri
    Steve, consulting an attorney is not fighting a legal fight. It's seeking professional advice. If you have a toothache, you go to a dentist.

    Please, seek professional guidance. You don't have to follow their advice.
     
  20. oldirt

    oldirt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    iowa
    I cannot believe this
     
    63 caveman and 51kw like this.