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D6C 10K Final Leaking How Urgently Should I Fix This?

NWForest

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Jul 23, 2019
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32
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Southern Oregon
This machine operates great (except for the winch, which will be another thread for another time). There is oily dust at the bottom outside of the left final. On the phone the local Cat dealer says $3000-$7000 to either fix the seal or anything more that may be wrong in there. I am guessing the dealer is high, but either way probably not cheap to fix. This is a machine I will probably not put more than 100 hours on in the next year. 200 at the most. Mostly light road work and skidding a load or 2 of logs. As long as I keep oil in the final is this something I should really get fixed or is it likely ok to put off until if and when I am going to be using it more?
 
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Vetech63

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Aug 10, 2016
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Oklahoma
Drain the final drive oil and look for metal shavings. If you don’t find much, refill with clean oil and run it. Check the oily area every time you use it for the problem worsening.

Oily dust isn’t what I look for. If you see drops of gear oil on the inside of your sprocket or on the top inside of your grouser pads then it’s time for a tear down. The tear down and rebuild of that final will require a proper press set up and axle/sprocket adapters.
 

Tones

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Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
If oil can leak out, dirt can get in which can lead to a big repair bill. Seen it happen on a HD11 that the boss wouldn't fix. When it finally got torn down the drive casing was half full of dirt and 100% of the internals had to be replaced.
 

kshansen

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Mar 11, 2012
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Central New York, USA
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Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Hard to diagnose a leak without seeing it. If just a oily bit of dust it might not be too bad, assuming what you are calling "oily dust" is what I'm picturing!

Also depends on the conditions the machine is working under. Big difference in my mind between dragging some logs down a smooth road and running in two feet of mud digging a pond.

Also would have to keep in mind your future application for this machine. If you are 80 years old and only need it to skid a few logs a year that's one thing but if you are 25 years old and are planing on developing a large golf course or housing development in two years you might want to get it fixed soon.

Maybe post a picture or two of this leak will get more ideas.
 

Nige

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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
As an additional comment to Vetech's observations above, I would start as follows: -
1. Turn the final drive so that the magnetic plug is above where the oil level should be. Remove the plug and check for metal particles on the magnet. Replace the plug. Take photos and post them. Giving some idea of how long the machine has operated since the plug was last removed would also be good, it gives context.
2. Turn the FD so the plug is at the correct location to check oil level, and do just that. It will probably be down a bit. Note by how much. See if you can suck or drain a small amount of oil out of the final and hold it up to the light in a clear container. Is the oil pretty clear..? Does it have any visible "sparklies" in it..? Can you see anything that in your opinion shouldn't be there..?
 

NWForest

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Jul 23, 2019
Messages
32
Location
Southern Oregon
After sitting a couple days the leak is bigger than I thought. there is a puddle on the track below. I haven't had time to look into the suggestions above yet but I did get a picture. I don't see how to post one on here though since when I click on the picture icon it asks me for a website.
 

John C.

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Jun 11, 2007
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Northwest
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That looks to me like the outer seal on the sprocket is leaking. For someone familiar with the project it's not too big a deal. It's probably not something a first timer or a part time mechanic should try without at least a service manual.
 

NWForest

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Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
32
Location
Southern Oregon
I finally got a chance to check the fluid. The fluid is up to the bottom of the threads on the fill hole. The machine is parked on a slight incline so if it was level it would probably be just slightly below the threads. I put a long magnet down there and rattled it around and there were a few shiny flakes on it. Someone mentioned turning the final to look at a magnet. I am not sure how that is done or where that could be viewed. I can get a small amount of movement when I pry on the sprocket. Just enough that I can barely see movement and hear a little squeak.

The plot thickens. While crawling around under this thing I found this crack in the photo. It is right under the front roller. It looks like it was welded a long time ago and cracked again. Sometime before the last paint job. It also looks like it wasn’t a very good weld. Can something like this be successfully welded by someone who knows what they are doing? Also the bolts in the other picture on the front idler assembly are not all the way right. The washers move freely. I tried to tighten them but they won’t budge. I don’t want to turn any harder in fear of breaking them.

Almost looks like it needs a new final, a new track frame and idler assembly. If that is the case, how much is that likely to cost to have someone do the work? I’m wondering if an old machine like that is worth it.
 

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John C.

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That crack is on the front top roller mount frame. It took me a minute to figure out I was looking at the equalizer bar. That frame just bolts to the track frame and can be removed to be welded properly. I'm wondering what the top roller looks like? The bolts on the front idler basically hold that bracket assembly to the roller shaft end cap. What that bracket does is hold the idler down on the frame. There are two springs underneath those bolts that push down on what looks like a plate under the square block. Usually you have problems with the bolts when that plate is gone. That plate has corresponding mounts that those springs sit on and they protrude into the block on the end of the idler shaft. I'm guessing that idler is bouncing all over the place when you travel over uneven ground. It depends on how much you want to use the tractor as to whether or not to repair those items. Both would require breaking the track and backing it off till the problem areas are exposed.
 

NWForest

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Jul 23, 2019
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Location
Southern Oregon
The roller looks pretty good to me. My idea was to eventually get it set up as a fire cat maybe next year or the year after. That would mean all this would have to be fixed. What I was asking in the beginning was if I should address the leaks before then. Now that I am seeing metal flakes I would guess yes. If it is going to cost too much to fix this one I think I would rather sell the thing. That is if I could get anything out of it in this condition. To fix the final, the crack, and the idler situation, does anyone have an idea what that would cost? That is to have someone do it.
 

John C.

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A fire cat can't have any leaks. The final drive is a big issue if chasing flames. A lot of times the end bearing on the dead axle is gone. You won't get metal flakes in the final from that outboard bearing. I don't know if the outboard seal is the bellows type or the metal rings but like I said before just changing the seals isn't a big problem. You don't have to press off the sprocket to fix that.

The front idler issue is mostly labor. The bolt heads will likely break off and you will have to drill out the blind holes and re-tap them for the repair. You might have to weld some steel on the rails in the track frames but that isn't bad. Probably five grand if you are lucky will fix the issues you see now. It's what will show up when you go to fix those issues that can run up the big dollars.
 

NWForest

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Jul 23, 2019
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Southern Oregon
Since the Cat dealer quoted me more like 7k if they actually have to start replacing parts in the final, I was afraid with all the other things that might be more like 10K. But if it is only 5k, that’s not so bad. I like the sound of it only being an adjustment. But then there are those few shiny flakes that came off the magnet. I am waiting to hear back from a couple local equipment mechanics to hear what they quote. Thanks for all the suggestions.
 

John C.

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You are right to be concerned. Opening up a final drive on a machine that old is like opening up a coffin.

You need someone on site that can guide you through what needs to be done.
 

DoyleX

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Dose not look like that big of a deal. As stated pull the bottom final plug. It is magnetic. Whats on it? Clean? Good!
Pull the track frame (easy job) and have a fitter with the proper do the outer bearing and seal. While the track frame if off get a different equalizer bar support as they are known to crack and put in new cat bolts. Then tidy up your idler problem and in a couple days your good for years to come.
 

Dave Neubert

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Monroe NC
If you have any movement when prying on sprocket you most likely have a bearing going south I would not try to tighten it.That would probably make the bearing fail quicker I would run it and keep a eye on the movement in the sprocket and keep a eye on oil level. If it gets worse park it and repair
 

John C.

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What I have seen on some other models was the adjusting mechanism come loose through corrosion or shock and not hold tension against the bearing. It would also cause the seal to leak. That's kind of why I suggested getting someone there who knew something of what is going on inside there. If the bearing or adjuster are damaged and you pull it all apart, you might also find the sprocket loose on the torque tube and who know what else. You just don't open up a coffin unless you have to and when you do you should have an expert there to guide you on what to look for.
 
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