D5M engine issues

[Brian Henderson]

Hello group, new to the site and in need of some help with a D5M , back story on Dozer it was run very low on oil and burned a bearing so they bought a 3116 out of a Topkick truck installed it and can't get it to run right, i was called out to work on it and so far have replaced injectors synchronized and set fuel rate and height , engine run's fairly well burning clean at idle but anything above that it produces white smoke and you can smell the fuel even burns my eyes it's so strong, set everything up to the truck engine spec.'s it has fairly good response to throttle , run's smooth just can't seem to get rid of the smoke, i know that commonly they don't put truck engines in dozers but my buddy is working on a small budget and picked up the engine for a good price, i'm just looking for some suggestions on what can be done to reduce the fuel delivery and keep the throttle response and rpm's , any help would be appreciated

 

[Nige]

Serial Numbers please. Tractor to start with, also of the engine that has been installed.

 

[Brian Henderson]

Tractor serial 5ES00865, truck engine serial 2BK14350

 

[Nige]

My 2c - you're batting a loser.
The donor engine is ATAAC turbo and rated for 170BHP @ 2600RPM and the D5M installation calls for 121BHP @ 2100RPM with a simple turbo setup and no aftercooler.

There are iterally no common parts between the two engines other than the model number plate on the valve cover. The cylinder block, head, rods/pistons, camshaft, fuel injectors, turbo, etc, etc, are all different. The list of differences between the two engine arrangements runs to 99 lines, half are removals, the other half are additions ..........

What has been done to the donor engine to install it in the D5M other than change/set the injectors..? Were the injectors you installed the correct P/N for D5M..? For example was the D5M turbo usedon the donor engine..?

 

[Brian Henderson]

The injectors were installed for the p/n for the truck engine, used the turbo off of the truck engine minus the outlet side do to exhaust configuration

 

[Nige]

In that case IMHO it ain't gonna work.
Injectors for a 170BHP engine are going to be injecting far more fuel than those for a 120BHP engine, probably the reason for the white smoke and the burning eyes sensation from unburnt fuel.

Others may have differening opinions, but as I always say opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has their own.

 

[Brian Henderson]

What is your opinion about installing the injectors from the dozer engine and is there any way to reduce the fuel with injector height adjustment

 

[Nige]

I feel that injectors alone will not cure the problem. In the donor engine you have a different turbo, higher compression pistons, a different cylinder head, and a different camshaft (which on its own probably has a lot to do with the fuel injected per cycle). I don't feel that anything meaningful could be done by simply changing the injectors and messing about with the height adjustment. In the absence of any hard and fast information everything you do will be a thumb suck. Sorry, I don't work that way.

 

[Brian Henderson]

Ok , thanks for the info

 

[Brian Henderson]

What is your opinion on switching pistons,cylinder head ,turbo and injectors from the dozer engine to the doner engine

 

[Nige]

You say the original engine "burned a bearing". I'm assuming it took the original block out..?

Rods are the same in both engines. Pistons, pins, & piston rings are different.

Apart from all of what you mentioned above, don't forget the camshaft.

At least the latest variants of the two cylinder blocks have the same Part Number, although with the difference in manufacturing date of the two engines the actual blocks you have may be different Part Numbers.

EDIT: The crankshafts are the same Part Number as well.

 

[Brian Henderson]

Haven't looked at the original engine, I was brought in after it had been removed going to try to get a look at it , this is one of those deals where someone trying to save a buck and didn't have all the proper information up front, that's kinda where I came in to try to make it run right kinda jumped into the fire with this one

 

[Nige]

Make no mistake, I feel your pain..........
Situations like this one you generally only get half the story up front as well.

 

[turbo8781]

Hey Nige,
I'm thinking there was something wrong with the engine before it came out of the truck. The reason I say that is because how would it really afect the engine just being in the dozer ? for all it knows it could be sitting on a test stand.
Could it be something as simple as timing/timing advance?, or maybe transfer pump fuel pressure. Also I didn't see where he said whether or not this is with a load on the engine or not.
I'm also guessing that this is all cylinders running equally as crappy which would make me think of something that would affect them equal like timing or fuel pressure.
What do you think?

 

[Nige]

I don't know what to think TBH.
Here is an engine designed to run up to 2600RPM (vs 2100), and produce 170BHP (vs 120) and have an air-to-air aftercooler hitched to it. The squirters are probably set to inject about twice the fuel of the dozer engine per cycle. No wonder it's throwing almost neat fuel out of the chimney.
Personally I think that to try to drop the engine straight into the tractor was the mistake, which the OP has been called in to try to sort out. It would have made more sense to use the block and crank from the truck engine and transplant all the other bits from the dozer engine.
I do feel though, that there is a lot of this story we (and I include the OP in that) are not being told.........

 

[nicky 68a]

I came across a lovely 3406C last year that I fancied as a spare.
I knew that it had been well refurbished and it took my eye.
However,I know enough about D8's to know that I know nothing at all about them,so made a call to Tony before proceeding any further.
He was very doubtfull that it would suit a D8R as it would have sold years ago.
I gave him the arrangement number and he was correct all along .
It was worth nothing to me.
You have to do your homework to keep the coins in yer pocket.
I feel sorry for the gent that owns this D5,but he's tried to cut corners and it's bit him in his arse.

 

[Mobiltech]

As said before the engine sitting in frame with no load on it should rev up fine and not smoke as if it were on a test bench being fed fuel. Once you put it to work you will probably see some overfuelling and black smoke without having an aftercooler.
Have you had any experience setting 3116 timing on injector height and synchronization because that can be tricky if you haven’t done it before.
Also have you tried running it without the muffler and air filter piping just in case there is a restriction there.

 

[Delmer]

Also, don't forget the fuel filters, suction leaks, blockage, old fuel, or just an engine that has been sitting too long.

I've seen a 3116 Topkick do the same thing, smoke up a parking lot with white smoke when revved, it would eventually clear up and be driveable without alarming the public, then do it again when cold. It had been sitting unused and cleared up after a few hundred miles. I'd try running it off a temporary tank of (biodiesel, additive, snake oil), and work the snot out of it. So these guys ran the engine low on oil, swapped in a truck engine (did they change the governor?), would you put it past them to be getting rid of some nasty diesel in the "old mechanical" engine? or maybe the thing has just been sitting getting stale for the last couple years as they got this sorted out RIGHT.

If it ran right in the truck, it should run right in the dozer at whatever power the old engine put out. I'd think the biggest drawback would be melting the engine down from bigger turbo, no aftercooling, aluminum pistons etc. etc. (and maybe a truck governor, if these guys could tell the difference). I woudn't think it would run different, or smokier until it got really loaded down, and these guys would probably love to roll some coal, right?