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D11N governor issue

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by Rihpper, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    That’s a big help, I will check the level and also change the oil if it’s full. I tried to order oil but CAT doesn’t have any, anywhere. He’s going to try and find some... I did find some on eBay though.
     
  2. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    TBH I'd have a look-see at the level first before buying some. Checking the oil level in a governor is not something that is normally done as a regular maintenance task and TBH I'd forgotten about it. A governor would normally be filled when it's built and that should last until the next time it's rebuilt. The suggestion is as part of the box-ticking exercise that will eventually lead to the root cause of the problem.
     
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  3. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Before going out to buy oil..........
    Take a look at your governor. Can you locate the fill plug (1), oil level sight glass (2), and drain plug (3) on it.?
    Reason I ask is that older governors were lubricated by engine oil and did not have the three items mentioned above.
    upload_2021-5-4_3-39-47.png
    BTW if you do need oil it is nothing more exotic than an API CF-4 full synthetic SAE 0W-40 engine oil.
     
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  4. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    That’s a good idea. I don’t remember seeing a sight glass on ours... I will check. Ok, thanks, that should be easy enough to find.
     
  5. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    So I go to look for the sight glass and lo and behold it is broken off.... full of dirt.
     

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  6. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    Nige, do you have the part # for (2) in your last photo? My parts book seems to show a slightly different governor without the sight glass.
     

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  7. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Oh that's not good.......... not just the dirt but the fact that there is supposed to be about 1" of oil showing in the sight glass. So obviously it's low on oil and also the oil that is left in it is most likely contaminated. Also not good. I have a baaaad feeling about the internal condition of your governor.

    The service 1997/98 magazine article regarding the updated governors spoke thusly ........ "New basic governor groups (Woodward 3161) are used on the 3500 engines in these machines and the remanufactured 3500 engines for these machines. These new 3161 Governors have a self-contained oil supply. The former 3161 Governors were connected into the engine's oil system. This could allow engine contaminants to collect inside the governor cavity and could shorten the governor service life. The use of a self-contained oil supply should result in increased governor service life."
    Your parts book likely was printed in the time when the former governors that used engine oil for lubrication were the only ones used. Also looking at your Parts Manual photo there were no less than four different governors used AFTER the 9Y-6679 that is listed for engines 99W984-Up in your photo.
    9Y-6679 covers engines 99W984-1689, 9Y-9122 covers 99W1690-2157 (includes yours), 7E-7250 covers 99W2158-3188, and 6I-0661 covers engines 99W3189-Up. And ALL of those Part Numbers used engine oil for governor lubrication. That's the risk you run when using an out-of-date Parts Manual.

    I show the governor with self-contained oil supply for a D11N as Part Number 124-3171 or Reman 0R-8309. Can you get a Part Number from the tag that is visible in your photo showing the broken sight glass elbow to confirm.?

    My suspicions are that Empire would have installed a Reman governor when they rebuilt the engine. At that time i worked for a dealer that was on a par with Empire as regards size, facilities, etc, and we didn't have anyone who could rebuild them so used Reman on all rebuilt MUI engines. Even in those days there were not too many 3500 MUI engines around, most were 1st Gen EUI.

    EDIT: At least for the latest governor Part Number there is a Reman available at $9k. Better than $14k for a new one.
     
  8. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    That’s very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to figure all that out. I drained the oil, and got about 20oz of ok looking oil. Yes it’s a reman, part # 0r-0309. Date code 04-08. WG CO part #A854-573C. WG CO serial #2500150. Also the top left of the plate is stamped 21 604. Do you know what the oil capacity is?
     
  9. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    The WG numbers will all be extremely useful if you get an independent guy with access to Woodward data to work on it.
    I'm afraid not, but it has to be more than 20oz because as I said above the correct oil level should be about 1" up the sight glass. TBH I'm more worried about what the dirt entry has done to cause wear in the mechanical parts of the governor.

    I have no idea if something like kerosene could be used to flush the governor out before adding new oil.

    Regarding the sight glass I have two Part Numbers for you. Refs 9 & 11 on the illustration below..
    129-3096 which sells at $220 (ouch!) which I think is the complete sight glass assembly including the elbow. See below. That's how it appears in the Parts system.
    I also found 131-4345 which appears to be just a replacement glass.
    Now here's the kicker. I can't tell whether the 129-3096 comes complete with a glass, or if it's no more than the body of the assembly minus the glass. Either way the 131-4345 is only priced at $7.

    upload_2021-5-4_20-4-21.png upload_2021-5-4_20-6-30.png
     
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  10. Coaldust

    Coaldust Senior Member

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    Nige knocks it out of the park, again.
     
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  11. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I had help, don't you worry.......... take a bow Cmark.

    Another thought. Take off the cap (Ref 1 in the illustration in post #43) and see if the atmospheric breather in it still works....... I'll bet you find it's plugged. A replacement cap is a 123-9693 (replaced by 1 x 5P-1838 & 1 x 171-5286) priced at around $20 for the pair.

    Still on the subject of the latest type of oil-filled governor, every piece of information I've found on them since we started delving down that particular rabbit hole has been related to generator sets. Apart from the Service Mag announcing the change in governor lubrication from engine oil to self-contained which was listed under 74Z D11N all the other service info has been generator set related. Hence my comment from earlier about your best bet to locate a governor expert.
     
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  12. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    I’m going to hope and pray that low oil was all that’s wrong with it. I should have both of the parts in the morning, hopefully one or both of them fit. I think I will just use the specified oil and change it a few times to clean it out.
    That’s for sure, I’ve been reading on here for years and the main reason I signed up was in hope that Nige would be able to help me figure this out.
     
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  13. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    Should be 1.8L. (2 qt)
     
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  14. Coaldust

    Coaldust Senior Member

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    I’m not a 3161 guy. But, I recall using diesel to flush them, after retrieving engines from Davey Jones Locker. Your oil idea sounds great. I wouldn’t know where to look to find a 3161 guy. I bet NC Power Systems in Dutch Harbor has one or two.

    I used to use a Shop in Seattle.
     
  15. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    That's 68 ounces in your language. I'd say you were more than a hair low..........
     
  16. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Just out of nostalgia I went back and took a look at our fleet list from round about the time Empire rebuilt the OP's engine. In the dealership we had forty-two D11s on the books and no less than 125 of various iterations of D10's. Even 15 years ago only two of the D11's were N's and both of them had been converted to electronic engines.

    From the next life after the above. 17 brand-new D11R's just about to be handed over to a customer in Colombia.

    upload_2021-5-4_21-30-16.png
     
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  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Marine is one option I hadn't considered. All depends how far the OP is from the sea i guess.
     
  18. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    Awesome, thanks!
    Yeah, very low. I didn’t see any shavings in the oil so hopefully it’s ok.
    I will take a look at the breather.
     
  19. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

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    Were the mechanical 3500s a problem child? It sure seems they changed governors often.. wow I wouldn’t mind having one of those!
     
  20. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I'm not sure I would describe them as a problem child, but would say that Woodward governors are far more suited to controlling engines that run at a relatively constant speed (think gensets, marine engines, industrial applications), as opposed to a machine engine where a varying RPM requirement as a result of changing throttle pedal inputs are normal.

    The 3500 MUI engines were only installed in a few machine models before the first electronically-controlled 3500s came on the scene. However at the time of first introduction of the "big" models there was no electronic engine option available.
    From memory there was the D11N, 8GB-prefix 785, 9ZC-prefix 789, 3SJ-prefix 793, and the 9YF-prefix 994. Forget the 994 though because it was run more like a genset. You engaged high idle and ran it on the left pedal.
    After the advent of the electronically-controlled 3500 engine Caterpillar very quickly made retrofit kits available for all the above-mentioned truck models plus the D11N to remove the MUI engine and replace it with an EUI engine. See below for your D11N and the instruction for retrofitting an EUI engine.

    upload_2021-5-4_22-11-29.png
     

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