1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

D11N governor issue

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by Rihpper, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    Thank you Nige. Yeah the cat guys don’t much experience with them... I did the valve adjustment about 500 hrs ago. We’ve never adjusted the injectors.
     
  2. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    Well at least that gives you a starting point. I have no idea where you might be able to find someone capable of setting the linkage, racks, & injectors, maybe one of our CA members knows somebody.?
     
  3. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,262
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    I have a question about the boost readings. All the specs for boost that I've run over my career have been in inches of mercury and not PSI. I've never run into a diesel engine that could run the PSI stated earlier. I seem to recall the twin turbo K Cummins in the 50 ton Haulpak trucks running in the 60" range when pulling 750 horses. Am I missing something?

    I agree with Nige on the condition of the engine and the need for adjustments at a minimum.
     
    Rihpper likes this.
  4. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    Well spotted John. The boost specs I quoted on Page 1 are indeed listed in inches of mercury. My apologies for that, I did not check my computer settings.

    Specifications translated to psi.
    Full load boost - 21.3 psi
    Torque converter stall boost - 19.5 psi with an absolute minimum of 16.6 psi to stay within the 0T Performance Specification.
     
    Rihpper, skyking1 and John C. like this.
  5. skyking1

    skyking1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    washington
    that cross shaft and linkage is nightmarish. It reminds me of the twin carb MBG's and the venturi gauge for setting idle, only so much more.
     
  6. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks for the updated specs. I measured boost and it is as follows. All tests were done with the service brakes as the job were on is done.
    Engine temp 175-180f

    High idle first gear slowly applying brakes to full load,max boost 17 psi.

    Low idle first gear, brakes locked, going to WOT, 9psi. (It takes 30 seconds to reach 8psi).

    High idle first gear, slowly applying brakes until machine stops, it holds 16psi after its stopped.


    Sounds like I’m low on boost...
     
  7. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    I would say so. Your 3rd test result is the indicator. That is basically a converter stall test. You should be around 19 psi boost. How accurate is the gauge you are using would be the next question.

    The second test accelerating from Low Idle is also interesting. The fact it takes 30 seconds to pick up boost is the old Catch-22. You can't get boost without RPM, you can't get RPM without boost. Try doing the same test with the transmission in 3rd speed and see if the results are any different.
     
    Rihpper likes this.
  8. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    Ok, I’m heading back out there and will report back soon
     
  9. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,262
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    I've always done torque converter stall tests in third gear forward and done the boost pressures at the same time. I lock up the service brakes first, open the throttle wide open and then drop the transmission in third gear forward and watch the boost pressure come up. If there is a problem, the boost will not build to spec from that level and the engine will drop below the specified RPM. There are many reasons why an engine would not build the proper boost when trying to bring on power from the bottom of the torque range. Design, altitude, air filters, fuel supply, governor problems, fuel ratio control valves, torque converter problems, other parasitic power draws like hydraulic pumps and so on. I was in a Cummins school years ago where the instructor was able describe troubleshooting a bad torque converter when the engine would not get full speed under load. There was a formula used to determine boost pressure when the engine was far below full stall rpm. I wish I could find those notes now.
     
  10. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    In 1st 2nd or 3rd boost was the same.
     
  11. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    And I bet it wasn't smoking hard when you performed the tests..?

    TBH I'd still suggest getting the racks, linkages, injectors, & governor set up first. At least you now have some "before" numbers that you can use to compare with when all the adjustments have been completed.
     
    John C. likes this.
  12. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    If the brakes are locked how would it make any difference what gear it was in?
     
  13. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,262
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    It doesn't make any difference other than it is easier and safer to hold the machine in third gear. It is also easier on the drive train to drop into third and not get a few million pounds of torque slamming into all that metal.
     
    Rihpper likes this.
  14. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    Correct, very little smoke. ok, I will try to find someone with experience with them.
     
  15. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    John, ok yes that makes sense.
     
  16. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    Do you have to copy and paste to quote someone? I highlighted it the presses the +quote button but it didn’t work.
     
  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    First you need to click the "+quote".
    If you do that then when you go to write a reply you'll find a blue "Insert Quotes" button under the bottom left corner of the reply box. You need to click on that to insert the quote.

    upload_2021-5-3_23-58-43.png
     
  18. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    Here's a question that came up in conversation offline.
    How is the governmor oil level.? Have you checked it recently.?

    And another that just came to mind. Has anyone inspected the linkage between the control lever in the cab and the shaft on the governor for worn joints, loose hardware, etc.? I've circled some of the obvious ones, there may be others.

    upload_2021-5-4_0-16-39.png
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  19. Rihpper

    Rihpper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Occupation:
    Owner/operator
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks! No I haven’t, I didn’t realize it had separate oil.. yes I have checked the linkage from cab to governor.
     
  20. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17,977
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    Be careful. The governor takes a special synthetic oil.
    Extract from manual below.........

    The 3161 Governor uses a self contained lubrication system. Governors on new engines are factory filled with a high quality synthetic oil hat will perform through the life of the governor. The oil has an ambient temperature operating range down to -40°C (-40°F) and will not oxidize over time.

    A sight gage shows the oil level in the governor. Proper level is within 25.4 mm (1.00 in) of top cover gasket with engine running. If filling is necessary, it is recommended that 136-9642 Caterpillar Governor Oil is used to maintain peak governor performance.