Cutting Edge Question

[smoothoperator]

I don't know if this question has been asked before but...
I was wondering what type of cutting edge most operators prefer. I'm guessing that it might vary with what type of grading you normally do. Back in '81 when I started as a maintenance blade operator, we ran 16', 8' of hardened in the middle, and 4' of regular (cheap) edge on either end, 5/8 by 8". This was on old straight frame machines without moldboard tilt. In the mid 80's, we went to two pieces of hardened, Cat DH-2 or equivalent, still 5/8 by 8". This was our standard issue cutting edge for many years. We did try the Cat graderbit system with medium width bits for a short time, but it seemed like we were always fighting with roads that were short on gravel, but long on weeds and grass. Not a good combination. Those bit holders, and other brands, have been moved to our dozer attachments to help cut out washboards in summer, and shear off small hardpack snowdrifts in winter.
Another change that we made was the switch from curved edges to flat. I wanted to try a set, just to see what they were like. FOR ME, they seem to pick up windrows without as much spillage off the toe, and you can run the moldboard more upright, allowing trash to slide through without getting trapped. It took me a little while, but I got the other operators to try them, and now all of us use them. Some of the other reasons we like them- where the edge meets the road, a flat edge can be near vertical, which means that you are cutting with a relatively narrow piece of steel. Penetration is easier, and on very hard roads, you will have less wasted metal curling up in front of your edge, and ending up in someones tire. Burning a crown into a flat edge still happens, but it is not as noticeable as with curved edges. When you do want to torch them straight again, you throw away less metal.
We have tried edges with carbide bars embedded in the middle, and carbide blasted onto their faces. I can see where they would be alright if your gravel roads were high quality, and you didn't have to deal with dirt and weeds, but in some of our jobs, we have to work with some roads that only get bladed 2-4 times per year. So for now, our use of carbide edges is very limited.
I'm still learning every day, as we all should. These are some of my thoughts, and I know they won't be the answer to all operators, situations, or conditions. All we can do is our best with what we have to work with.

smoothoperator...most of the time anyway.

 

[littleroadgrade]

We use the 5/8" x 8" x 8' curved pacal blades on all our machines, when they start getting crowned out we run them down our paved roads and burn the ends down, always thought the flat blades would work better in the winter blading snow.
A few queations:
Do you get any moleboard chatter or vibrations?
How do they work in dirt work such as ditching?
Are they cheaper if so how much?
What brand are you using?
Has anyone ever broke one while blading( seems they would not be as strong)
Thats all I can think of at the moment, good to see that you guys can try different options, don't know if our supers will even allow it but I will ask.
THANKS

 

[Grader4me]

I would be interested in trying the flat blades that you mention. Can you throw in a couple of pictures and the price? We run the curled blades for most applications. We have a few guys that are running with the bit system, but are basically using them for the roads that are hard packed. These type of blades have their place as you mentioned.

 

[heavylift]

they use whatever is cheaper here,,, which doesn't make since, when we snowplow runways. sometimes you will wear out 2 cutting edge in a day.. Every once in awhile they will put a big fat on one, which will last several days... except the dirt guys don't like them for dirt work. the skinny ones may last several months,in dirt but that 50 year old concrete is a killer.
they don't put the fat ones on unless it like a foot of snow.... but still thats a lot of cutting edges to change, when there are 6 -8 blades and 4 or 5 loaders

 

[smoothoperator]

I checked Pacal's website, and it doesn't look like they offer a flat edge for non-mining graders. They have a product for large machines called All-Cast, which is available in flat, but nothing for normal (to most of us) sized machines. If you co to Caterpillar's website, start with parts and service, ground engaging tools, motor graders, in the words of Cat- Flat edges are the strongest and have the most wear material. They also say that curved edges have the best penetration. Can I agree with one statement and not the other? Definately maybe. This might be where your primary machine usage might help your decision. Maintenance blading on existing gravel or dirt roads can probably be done just as well with flats as with curved, and you might see a few more miles of bladed road before your next edge change. You will notice that many of the embedded small rocks that curved edges slide over, will be snagged and put into your windrow. This will only happen for the first few rounds. After that, they can be blended with the rest of your material, or thrown off as oversize. I have had very good luck using flats for heavy dirtwork, site prep, road reshaping, windrowing ripped asphalt, and laying asphalt patches, big and small. If you could talk your supervisors into buying a set, or a bundle of flats for your operators to try, it would give all of you a chance to decide for yourselves which ones you prefer. Machines are getting heavier, and penetration may be getting to be less of a problem for most operations. My 140M AWD with 16' of 3/4" x8" flat and a 27" high moldboard can fill the blade to the point of flooding out the top of the circle. Looks really impressive, but you would probably be better off bumping up a gear and lightening the load. To littleroadgrade- no more chatter than curved edges, I have had good luck with them doing ditching and other dirtwork, price is the same (for our Cat DH-2 edges), and I have never seen any of our operators break or do any major chunking on these edges. But never say never, right? Grader4me- Can't find a decent picture, but if your nearest Caterpillar dealer has a rack of edges, you may be able to spot a set there. My '09 Balderson wing came with a set of Cat flats, but I can't remember now if they were 6" or 8" Heavylift- I think your snow removal operation may be a great place for carbide insert/faced edges. They cost about 5? times as much as regular edges, but they wear very well running on asphalt or concrete. And you have much less of a problem with metal shavings on your runways. My thoughts, worth every penny you pay. Hope I get you curious. Try them, and let everyone know how they work for you. If they work, great, if not, at least you tried, and you have your own personal experience to base your decision on.

smoothoperator...on a good day anyway.

 

[ledsel]

We used flat blades, 1"x8" on pit run logging roads for years. They held up very very well. Regular blades would last maybe 1 day where the flat 1" would last a week easy. This was very hard roads.

 

[grandpa]

I use Black Cat carbide edges from Kris Engineering.... 10 times better than cat carbides. I put em on in March and run em til November. No turning, no maintenence. Just order 2 sets of 14footers and the bill was $1600 for the two sets. Now if you can blade 40hrs a week average for that time period for $800 with no maintenence I know where i will put my money!
























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[Diagonal Brace]

On the Cutting Edge

We run 1" x 8" flat blades and notice no difference over curved with regard to chattering etc. They all catch a little at first but once they start wearing we just keep rolling them forward and then back to try to keep them "sharp".

Grandpa [or anyone else] have you ever tried the carbides for ice removal?

 

[Diagonal Brace]

On the Cutting Edge

We run 1" x 8" flat blades and notice no difference over curved with regard to chattering etc. They all catch a little at first but once they start wearing we just keep rolling them forward and then back to try to keep them "sharp".

Grandpa [or anyone else] have you ever tried the carbides for ice removal?

 

[Diagonal Brace]

Seeing double

If someone can delete the extra post I would appreciate it. Thanks

 

[perley03]

We run Sandvik's S35 cutting tool and Sandvik tungsten carbide teeth year round on my 140G. The logging roads up here were built out of shale, and these teeth help "grind" them up finer. Also, when the calcium is put down to reduce dust, it hardens the road like concrete. These teeth really help break up the road again. Also really nice when scarfing ice in the winter. Just put er on float and go to town. Some places you can apply some down pressure if the ice is thick, but really these teeth cut in good in the ice.
Here is a picture of the blade. Was peeling up sod on an old logging road that is getting ready to start harvesting wood. These teeth really dig in and rip up the sod, but would prefer a smooth blade to roll the sod off to the side.

 

[bigrus]

Soft option grading

My prefered edge for blacksoil irrigation maintenance are DH2 6" x 1/2" (on a 14' moldboard). For cutting weeds out of siphon ditches & field borders etc, the thinner & sharper the edge,giving better performance especially on the sloper (batter) blade where I run 4 x 5' plus 1 x 5' cut in half for fitment at each end, which I've only replaced twice in 10
Compared with the harsh conditions for grading elsewhere, I'd say I'm in retirement grading heaven, very few stones or rocks either