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Ct322 fuel system help

Discussion in 'Compact Track/Multi Terrain Loaders' started by Kxnate, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. tool_king

    tool_king Senior Member

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    Sounds good
    Engine serial number will to the right of that fiting on a black white metal riveted tag .It will have the model and serial number on it . If I get chance to get picture of one I will send it to so you can see were it located .
     
  2. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    Ok, so after finding the part # for the return line check valve myself since my Deere dealer couldn't find it and thought it didn't have one, I have replaced the said check valve that my unit supposedly didn't have.:confused: While I had it out, I put in a regular barbed fitting, connected another chunk of fuel line to it going to a clear container, and operated the hand prime until I had pumped out about a quart of fuel, per tool-king (Ed) recomendation. It did appear there maybe could have been some junk in the fuel rail that could have been getting stuck in the old check valve. Put it back together a d hand primed about 5 or 6 pumps and it firmed up solid, unit fired right up.

    I started it before working on it so I could raise the boom up to raise the cab, and prior to starting I pumped the hand primer about 20 times and it never got firm, which leads me to believe the check valve was hanging open at least partially, and it ran like crap as usual at startup.

    I'll fire it up again Friday after it sets for 2 days and will report back again. For anyone that doesn't know tool-king (Ed), he is a first class guy and more than willing to share his knowledge to help a guy out. I am pretty mechanically inclined, but outside of regular maintenance on my Cummins (oil changes, fuel filters, etc), I have very little experience with diesel engines. I spoke with Ed several times today via phone calls and texts, great guy and greatly appreciated.

    I'll let you all know how it goes Friday, hopefully this finally puts my startup woes to bed.
     
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  3. Jmichaelis11

    Jmichaelis11 Member

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    I have same issue going on with my 322 it only runs rough for a few seconds and needs to sit for 4-5 days so I have not messed with it much but I'm interested to hear if this shows any improvement. Thanks for all the info!
     
  4. tool_king

    tool_king Senior Member

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    Nathan
    You very welcome any time .Glad was able to help you out with you machine issues and point you in the right direction to look .
     
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  5. tool_king

    tool_king Senior Member

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    How many hours on it ? Probably same thing going with it .Have you also looked at the hand primer check valve in the hand primer .They can get debris packed in there and will cause a run rough issues .Take hand prime plastic retaining nut off . Go slow it is spring loaded a little .Take off the diaphragm .Take pair of pliers and pull the check valve out of the fuel filter housing and inspect .Also take the rubber diaphragm and turn it inside out with you fingers and thumb looking for cracks in rubber .If you find then replace with hand primer diaphragm kit from John Deere .
     
  6. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    Ok, well I think I got a good sign tonight. When I got home from work I popped the engine cover and pushed on the hand primer pump and it was still good and firm. So at this point, it appears to still be holding pressure. I did not start it yet, I want to let it sit one more day and see what happens. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow night.
     
  7. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    Well I think it's fixed, popped the engine cover and the primer pump was still hard as a rock so definitely holding pressure now. It's only about 44 degrees right now compared to 70+ a few days ago so it wasn't the smoothest starting, ran rough but you could tell it was a cold rough whereas before you could tell it was fuel starvation. It was a smooth rough before if that makes sense, acted like it had a dead hole, whereas today was definitely cold diesel rough.

    My next job is to get an outlet wired in over on the side of the house where I park it before winter so I can plug it in as it is definitely a cold blooded bigger. Not sure how to tell if the glow plugs are actually working?
     
  8. tool_king

    tool_king Senior Member

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    Nice job .Glad it worked out for
     
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  9. Jmichaelis11

    Jmichaelis11 Member

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    it has just short of 700 hours I will check into that if it becomes an issue for sure! thanks!
     
  10. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    I think the check valve definitely helped, every time I have checked the hand prime pump since changing the check valve, it is good and firm with pressure whereas before it was always soft like a sponge. Temperatures have dropped here dramatically and I haven't started plugging it in yet, it is definitely hard starting when cold. But I think it will definitely start better now when warm than it was doing before replacing the check valve. I may not find out until next spring now though haha.
     
  11. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    Ok, I have confirmed the fuel issue is fixed with the check valve replacement. Also confirmed my block heater works. Its 50 degrees here today, and been mid 30's overnight. Plugged it in for about 2 hours this morning, got in it and the water temp was up to 121 degrees, it fired right up only stumbled for about 1-2 seconds, I'm sure due to air temp, and smoothed right out and ran great.
     
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  12. tool_king

    tool_king Senior Member

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    Awesome to hear you got it figured out .
     
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  13. Jmichaelis11

    Jmichaelis11 Member

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    Glad to hear it fixed it! While on the topic does anyone know why these seem to somewhat rev up a little higher than idle for a second when they start? they all seem to do it. I wouldn't think that helps the cold starting!
     
  14. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    It has a "cold start" device that pulls it to excess fuel for ease of starting..
    Once it started its no longer in play.
     
  15. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    I did read in my owner's manual that it states to put it at 1/3 throttle when you start it?? This seemed to make it start worse the times I tried it. I typically start it at idle and then after it smoothes out for a few seconds I'll bump the rpm up just a little bit.
     
  16. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Nate, TRY IT now that its fixed.. what was happening before was, you were asking it for more fuel & it wasn't there because of the bad check valves.. the fuel was draining back..and u were pumping air... NOW that you've got constant fuel pressure, it should start like the book says.. Bump up the throttle & turn the key.
    Let us know..
     
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  17. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    I'll give it a try next time I go to start it and see how it does now.
     
  18. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    Ok, started last night to move it out of my parking area to free up a parking spot for today. It was about 60 degrees, was not plugged in, gave it a little throttle at start, not sure if it liked the extra fuel. Lots of smoke, and pretty rough start, took probably 5 seconds or so to smooth out. Maybe that's the way it should be but seemed better to start at idle then bump the rpm up a touch after. I'm not really accustomed to the old school low pressure mechanical injection diesels though, I'm more used to the newer high pressure common rail stuff that start smoothly almost any time.
     
  19. Kxnate

    Kxnate Active Member

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    Ok started again tonight about 38 degrees out, was plugged in, water temp was 104, tried the throttle thing again not quite 1/3 throttle but gave it a little extra. Started and ran great, a little black smoke then about 2 quick little stumbles and a little blue smoke and then run great. The check valve definitely solved its biggest starting woes, now I just have to get used to its temperature quirks, its definately a cold blooded pig if it's not plugged in.
     
  20. mg2361

    mg2361 Well-Known Member

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    A little theory on the cold start advance for that engine:
    The cold start advance on the JD Series 250 engine is controlled by oil pressure in the hydraulic roller cam followers, or lifters, for the unit pumps. During cold starting, engine oil is sent by the cold advance thermostat to the cold advance piston in the cam follower via the cold advance oil gallery. The oil pressure lifts the piston 1.5 mm, thus increasing the overall travel length, or stroke, of the unit pump plunger. This advances the pump timing. The increase in stroke of the plunger causes the cam to raise the plunger sooner. This change results in the injection timing to be advanced approximately ten degrees. The oil pressure needed to provide full cold start advance is about 35 psi. A ball check at the base of the piston prevents pumping forces from collapsing the advance.
    The cold start advance thermostat begins to block the oil flow when oil temperatures reach approximately 80°C (176°F). When the oil supply port to the roller cam followers is fully blocked, residual oil in the piston cup bleeds out through a drain orifice located in the cup end of the follower. At approximately 15 psi oil pressure, the cold start advance is fully disabled. The follower piston returns to the lower position, returning timing advance to the optimum performance level for an engine at normal operating temperatures.
    Normally when there is a cold start issue I check the advance oil pressure to make sure it is funtioning properly (after checking the fuel return check valve first which you did of course). And yes, those engines will smoke and miss at start up when cold. That is quite common.

    Good job Kxnate!
     
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