Common Fleets Question

[Tigerotor77W]

I've got a question about common fleets (fleets of all one make, be it trucks or equipment or even accessories, like walkie-talkies). In the airline industry, large fleets usually like to have a common cockpit so that retraining officers and captains is quicker. When you have two cockpits that are radically different, it takes time and a lot more money to retrain pilots to a new aircraft. Does any of this apply to heavy equipment? For instance, if you start out with a skid steer and a mini-excavator of brand X, is there any reason not to continue using brand X as you grow the business? Here are my thoughts --

1) Dealer service. If the dealer is good, you could argue that you'd stick with that dealer's product line, but how would you know if another dealer stepped up their quality and support to match your original dealer without trying the other dealer?

2) Product reliability. What's to say the next-generation of brand X products won't break down easier?

3) Productivity. Suppose that historically, brand Y has been more productive than brand X. If you want a fleet of fifteen excavators, is it necessary to have maximum productivity if not all fifteen are being used all the time?

4) Cabs. Will a different layout -- say, in dump truck dash arrangements -- make a difference in how your operators or drivers perceive the machine?

The main question is simply whether a common fleet (one manufacturer) reduces costs -- or if it's a case-by-case comparison that decides the answer.

 

[xkvator]

I think a common fleet would reduce costs in parts inventory, interchangable buckets, etc. & i think you would be able to make repairs more efficiently since you'd know the machines pretty well.

dif. makes of skids & excavators are available with the same controls, so i don't think it would be to much of a problem switching brands.
manufacturers are always trying to out do the others, so if one comes up with some feature that you want, i think a lot of owners would switch.

 

[2004F550]

Comes in handy when stocking parts for example, mostly Cat and Mack. Mechanics and operators can concentrate on certain machines and know the brand instead of having to jump from brand to brand. We use mostly Cat machines because parts and service are a higher level and we take pride in our machines. The one machine we buy else where are Deere loader backhoes and Deere small dozers like he 450H's. The only reason we deviate here is because we can't find another backhoe as good as the Deere and Cat's small dozers are behind Deere's 450's for sure.But yes having fleets is good and does lower costs and training. Another example is our totally Chevy and diesel fleet except (Except for one f550). This simplifies the light truck fleet as well and makes service an parts easier. Also since we have all diesel we can use fuel from our shop tank instead of the wasted time while guys go to the gas station every morning and waste time etc....anway thats my .02

 

[Ford LT-9000]

I don't know what you mean by fleet but most excavation contractors have 3 excavators and 2-3 dump trucks all different.

In my mind if you can't operate in all different types and brands of equipment you shouldn't be in the business. Like the one contractor I worked for has Deere,Komatsu,Hitachi and Kubota you learned how to run all the different traits the machine has.

Even the same brand machine and same size machine acts differently.

The reason why fleets run the same brand is for parts mainly so they are not buying a big parts inventory for different machines.

The biggest fleet thing is trucks like P/Us unless you are a big company and your running allot of excavators all the same brand etc.

The contractors around this area run Hitachi John Deere Komatsu and Kobelco so things like oil filters, air filters etc are aftermarket the local parts stores have them in stock.

For the odd Cat equipment you have to order their filters it takes a couple weeks and you buy enough of them to have them in your own stock.

 

[Orchard Ex]

In the airline industry, large fleets usually like to have a common cockpit so that retraining officers and captains is quicker. When you have two cockpits that are radically different, it takes time and a lot more money to retrain pilots to a new aircraft.

Actually, airline pilots are "type rated" for a particular series of aircraft, but it is not airline specific. A pilot would get a type rating for a Boeing 737 but would be ok wether American or Delta owned the airplane. He/She wouldn't be ok for a Boeing 747 however. Anytime they get a new "type rating" they get the same intensive training so that they know the cockpit blind even if it's a new plane from the same manufacturer and airline. Also - Captains generally stay in the same type for a long time - no switching back and forth (B737 today, Airbus A320 tomorrow) for the same reasons. I know that wasn't really your point - forgive me for rambling :salute
But think how bad it would be if your CDL was type rated and you had to test for every combo of engine/tranny/truck type to go along with your tanker/hazmat endorsements! :crying

Anyway - the guys I worked for that went to common fleet's were because of the things already mentioned (parts inventories, mechanic training) but mostly because the dealers gave them a much better discount to stay brand loyal. ex. My Kubota dealer gave me a much better tradein number to stay on an orange tractor than my Deere dealer was going to give me to "turn green" (or Deere yellow actually)

-Korey

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Actually, airline pilots are "type rated" for a particular series of aircraft, but it is not airline specific. A pilot would get a type rating for a Boeing 737 but would be ok wether American or Delta owned the airplane. He/She wouldn't be ok for a Boeing 747 however. Anytime they get a new "type rating" they get the same intensive training so that they know the cockpit blind even if it's a new plane from the same manufacturer and airline. Also - Captains generally stay in the same type for a long time - no switching back and forth (B737 today, Airbus A320 tomorrow) for the same reasons. I know that wasn't really your point - forgive me for rambling :salute
But think how bad it would be if your CDL was type rated and you had to test for every combo of engine/tranny/truck type to go along with your tanker/hazmat endorsements! :crying

Anyway - the guys I worked for that went to common fleet's were because of the things already mentioned (parts inventories, mechanic training) but mostly because the dealers gave them a much better discount to stay brand loyal. ex. My Kubota dealer gave me a much better tradein number to stay on an orange tractor than my Deere dealer was going to give me to "turn green" (or Deere yellow actually)

-Korey

I'll mostly agree with that... I should have been more specific in my reference. If an airline puts in an RFP for, say, 150-seat aircraft and ends up going all Airbus, with a fleet of 20 A320, 10 A319, and 10 A321, he will consider staying with Airbus' widebodies for fleet upgrade in order to keep a similar cockpit layout. (Haha, I admit, that's the marketing spin on things... it sure doesn't always happen! But it's touted, and that was my original intent in bringing it up. Thanks for the clarification!) And an interesting analogy to the CDLs...

Ford LT-9000: by fleet, I meant what you had interpreted -- essentially, one manufacturer for equipment (or one for compact, one for larger if one company doesn't span your entire needs), one for trucks, one for... whatever else.

Sounds like it's mostly about parts... thanks for the thoughts, everyone! If anyone else has ideas or comments, feel free to voice them...

 

[CascadeScaper]

For us being landscape contractors, we don't buy fleet equipment. I can say that by buying Cat we have many distinct advantages. First, our dealer is great, that isn't compromised. Since we have only 2 machines, the advantages of stocking large inventories of "like" parts (filters, etc.) isn't much of a concern, but hydraulic fluid, engine coolant, etc is nice to be able to cross over. Since we have purchased 2 brand new pieces of equipment from the same guy, the next time I need a rental piece or even a new piece I get a no-bull response. As it stands, we are on priority with our dealer and that's how I like it. We need service, parts, rental, whatever, the dealer caters to us, even the little guys.

The next time we buy a piece, I will shop around, as I did when we bought our excavator earlier this year. I will more than likely get the same responses as I did when I was looking for the excavator. Deere dealer blew me off and didn't have a demo machine, Bobcat dealer didn't have a demo machine and wasn't sure when they'd recieve one, and with all that I was out of "local" dealers.

As far as training in the machines go, most equipment is pretty much the same brand to brand, it's the little features in the cab that I can only see differences, aside from control patterns. One large contractor up this way ran Deere excavators exclusively, added Hitachi for their 30 ton and larger machines, and is now running a few Cat's in the mix as well. They run Cat everything else, backhoes, scrapers, dozers, but have run Deere excavators for years. This doesn't make sense to me, obviously Cat is probably going to cost more than a Deere/Hitachi and pattern control on the machines isn't a problem anymore so I don't see the difference.

It's almost a question of availability, price, support, and who's willing to get you into a new machine just a little more than the other guy. I'm starting to think that the crappy Deere dealer we have up here is rubbing off on this large contractor and that's what has cued them to start switching over to 100% Cat.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I'm starting to think that the crappy Deere dealer we have up here is rubbing off on this large contractor and that's what has cued them to start switching over to 100% Cat.

Now that makes me smile... What's the contractor's name, if you want to disclose?

 

[dayexco]

maybe they run deere and hitachi vs. cat excavators is because he wants to get something done

 

[Tigerotor77W]

What's wrong with the Cats? (No offense meant)

 

[CascadeScaper]

Pipkin Construction out of Wenatchee, WA is the contractor. I think what has happened up here is that a few years back, the Deere dealer (Smith Tractor back then) had a much larger store and was doing very well as far as service, sales, etc. About 3 or 4 years ago Smith Tractor, a large chain of Deere dealers throughout the northwest, was bought by a much larger company by the name of Pape Machinery. Since then, dealer service, in my area, has gone downhill. Also, about the same time Pape acquired Smith Tractor, NC Machinery, Cat's northwest chain of stores, moved it's Wenatchee location to a much larger facility that allows them to rent, service, and sell a lot more machines than they ever could at their old location. Now the Wenatchee NC Machinery stocks the largest number of rental machines through the Cat Rental Store in the entire state of Washington. It's a growing housing market out here, local real estate prices have gone up 400% in the last 3 years and everyone and their brother is building a house. It's good news for the development contractors and excavation guys alike, but for us with smaller equipment, more people are building new houses rather than remodeling old ones, so the compact equipment biz isn't a real money maker. But that's why we're in the landscaping business.