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CAV Injector Pump Stuck? MF135

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by JCinNC, May 25, 2022.

  1. JCinNC

    JCinNC Well-Known Member

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    A follow up if interested.... (i can't stand when someone doesn't finish their story and disappears....)

    I got the injector pump rebuilt, put on, bled everything, and it fired up. Still will crank and run normally. So it appears the injector pump was one of the problems. One? you ask?

    Well yeah. The tractor (MF135) kind of skips.
    Symptoms I've noticed.
    1) Kind of skips.
    2) No abnormal smoke to mention. A little under load it blackens a little but most of the time it's almost clear coming out of the pipe when RPM's are leveled off and not under load.
    3) The hand throttle does not have the fast response as before. Pull it rich quick and it takes a few seconds to respond to full RPM. Before, it was almost instant. 1 to 2 seconds tops.
    4) I could swear I see diesel seeping out at the front exhaust manifold connection.

    Any ideas to get the skip out of my diesel?

    Thanks for all responses.

    JCinNC
     
  2. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Simplest explanation is that the timing is off. Possibly the pressure control valve thingy in the inlet is messed up. Did Thepumpguy rebuild your pump for you? and did he give you directions for re installing it?
     
  3. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Did u set the timing to “0”.??
    U shoulda sent the injectors ..
    I can tell u with a straight face, it’s not the pump.. it has a brand new head and rotor installed..
     
    Tinkerer likes this.
  4. JCinNC

    JCinNC Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe it to be a pump issue. Tractor would not run at all and now it does. Only thing that was changed is the pump was rebuilt. So that solved the not running at all issue and therefore it would seem that the pump was/is done correctly and functioning correctly.

    Timing? To my knowledge it's correct. Question is do I have any knowledge. lol. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    I did NOT go through a process of "setting it to zero".

    History of events so you can tell me where I made a mistake and how to correct.
    -The block mark was matched to the pump housing mark before it was removed. I didn't move it to match it, it has always been lined up. It always cranked and ran smoothly within 2 to 3 seconds in this position. Even in winter.
    -Battery cables taken off the tractor.
    -Pump removed carefully so nothing internally moved. I made sure. The internal mount/gear did not move.
    -Pump rebuilt.
    -Pump installed in exact same position with block mark and pump housing mark aligning. No wiggling around to get it in or match the "key" on the drive gear. Straight in, bolt it up.
    -Bled system.
    -Tractor cranks almost instantly as before, just has this skip that has never been there.

    Thanks for reading and all input.

    JCinNC.
     
  5. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Are the "block mark and pump housing mark" the marks shown in the picture in post #3?
    This has a key in the driveshaft? so it would be on or 360 out of time.
    Maybe remove the return line and blow through it to make sure you don't have bugs plugging it up while it's been off? Double check all the fuel supply, valves open all the way, squirting a good bit of fuel with the transfer pump, or cranking.
     
    JCinNC likes this.
  6. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    I’m not sure what I mean by black marks.??
    There’s a line on the pump and one on the block.. match’m up..
    It pump is adjustable, sometimes gear “lash” or wear is a factor and the pump needs to move off the line on the block..to compensate for the “lash”..
    But I’d sooner believe it’s injectors.. & besides, it’s a 3 cylinder .. it’s always going to have
    an off-beat..
     
  7. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    One thing that might work to narrow it down to a cylinder..
    Get it “skipping” and loosen each line, 1 at a time to see when the ship goes away..or matches the beat of the opened injector..
     
    Delmer and 56wrench like this.
  8. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    BLOCK mark.
     
  9. JCinNC

    JCinNC Well-Known Member

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    Hey Delmer, on my end it looks like I typed b-l-o-c-k. But my eyes aren't what they used to be.

    I'm familiar with "180 out" but not 360. Would it even run if 360 out? It cranks and runs in about 2 seconds of turnover with the starter.
    It DOES labor if the throttle lever isn't enriched a little bit. But I'm assuming that can be an idle screw adjustment on the pump.
     
  10. JCinNC

    JCinNC Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The line on the pump and block were aligned before pump removal. They are aligned in the same position after pump install.
    Engine ran well last year in this position. Maybe pump and engine kind of wore together to work together well in their worn state?

    Pump appears adjustable. In other words, "ovaled" bolt mounts for slight pump rotation to make the fuel rich or lean. Which way to rotate to make richer or leaner?
    My experience is that when this 3 cylinder is right, it does not have an off-beat.
    Have a Ford 345D and when it is right, I can agree that this 3 cylinder (Ford 345D) does have an off beat.


    Might try this. It is such a b!tch to get to these injectors to do this test though. (Maybe I'm just complainy.)
    Anyone have a special trick to make it simpler?


    Again, thanks for all replies. Really appreciated.
     
  11. Swetz

    Swetz Senior Member

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    How about loosening them at the pump end of the injector line?
     
  12. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Just tie back the engine cover, so it won’t keep falling on ur head..
    Swing the battery tray outta the way..& tie if necessary..
    Get it running and just crack the injector line .. wrap it in a shop towel if’n u don’t like to get wet..
     
  13. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    The movement of the pump adjusts the pump to engine timing..
    Look at the arrow on the name plate.. THATS the pump rotation..
    To ADVANCE the timing, u would turn it AGAINST the rotation..(opposite the arrow)
    BUT.. ONLY GO 1* MAX.!!
    If your WHITE SMOKING, that means the pump timing is RETARDED and needs to be Advanced (opposite arrow)
    Black smoke means your to far advanced and needs to be retarded OR I mighta turned the fuel up a little.. wink, wink..
     
    dieseldog5.9 likes this.
  14. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    I did the screenshot at 11 minutes 33 seconds.

    time.png

    Video edited out at member's request.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2022
  15. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    The new spec sheets no longer carry the letter designation..
    I will have to go to my build sheet to see weather or not it has 1..
     
  16. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    The oval holes is how you fine tune the timing, like pumpguy is telling you. 360 and 180 off are the same thing, injection pump timing off 180 is the same as 360 degrees on the crankshaft, that's why you turn the pump tiny amounts when adjusting, and go past till it runs rough, then back the other way to establish the limits, then adjust around the middle to get the sweet spot. I don't think it's 180 off, it would not start immediately, or run smooth at all.

    the "skip" on a three cylinder can be as simple as the timing making the exhaust sound different, and one cylinder being closer to the exhaust outlet than the other two.
     
  17. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    That Bundt Bear video should be taken down.!!!
    I’ve gotten so much work from folks watching that saying my pump ran fine other than leaks and now it won’t run at all after watching and following the B.Bear video.
    I almost feel like I need to send him some money for all the work I get from him.!!

    The pump can’t be 180* out.. it’s master keyed..
     
  18. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Another example of -- If it's on the internet it is true.:eek:
    NOT !
    I reported the BS video to the mods and asked for it to be deleted.
     
    nova481 likes this.
  19. Diggerman1

    Diggerman1 New Member

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    I am not sure if this is the correct procedure but I am reaching out to " the PumpGuySC" for possible help with a Delphi
    1291 injection pump issue on a post I made yesterday for 1996 JCB 214e backhoe. Diggerman1.
     
  20. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Hi Digger.. u found me..
    If it’s easier, contact me at my home email.. & we can talk at length..
    thepumpguysc@aol.com
     
    Tinkerer likes this.