Cats are soooo expensive compared to kubota. What’s the reason?

[zeroo]

I’m curious. My u48-5 was like $71k, the equivalent 305 is like $90+.

What is the difference? I’ve never ran a cat so curious.

 

[materthegreater]

No need to press the button to activate the aux hydraulics every time the safety lever is cycled perhaps? That would be worth almost $20k to me

 

[Coaldust]

That extra markup paid for my wages, bennies, company vehicle, liquid lunches and P-card. Don’t hate the player. Hate the game, bro.

Because Cat still struggles with the compact market. They have big iron figured out. Logistics, parts, marketing, manufacturing, territories, yada, yada. The economy of scale doesn’t pencil out with compact equipment. Been there and sat in those meetings when I was working in NACD. Cat has never been successful at making small engines for the same reasons.

 

[Coaldust]

I wouldn’t surprise me if Cat leaves the compact market, soon. Compact equipment is built like a consumer commodity. Like a disposable appliance. Like a Nissan Sentra

Cat will enter a market late and leave a market soon as profitability drops. Truck engines, trucks, mining excavators, ag equipment and what am I forgetting? Then, focus on their core. Then, locomotives, then boots, lol, lol, lol.

 

[92U 3406]

I wouldn’t surprise me if Cat leaves the compact market, soon. Compact equipment is built like a consumer commodity. Like a disposable appliance. Like a Nissan Sentra

Cat will enter a market late and leave a market soon as profitability drops. Truck engines, trucks, mining excavators, ag equipment and what am I forgetting? Then, focus on their core. Then, locomotives, then boots, lol, lol, lol.

Truck engines not profitable, try telling that to any truck driver and they'll tell you its a lie.

 

[Coaldust]

Yup. Nature finds a way. In 2008 when the truck engine market was in turmoil, the EPA consent decree was done, 2.5 gram NOX was the law of the land, Cummins almost got out. Cat made their announcement and Cummins went all in. Risked it for the biscuit.

 

[John C.]

Truck engines not profitable, try telling that to any truck driver and they'll tell you its a lie.

Not quite correct. Cat engines were not profitable to the extent that big iron was. Big iron makes 60% on parts and labor. The engines were simple enough that so many people outside the Cat system could do the work for 10 to 15% profit margin. Cat also could not build a truck and they wanted vertical integration like they have on the big iron. Looking at huge development costs of compliance plus they only offered an engine so they entered into the joint partnership with Navistar. It didn't take long to see the error in that thinking.

From what I saw in the Cummins engines, they were all in from the start. They were the first US manufacturer to comply with Tier 1, 2 and 3. That's part of the reason so many manufacturers overseas converted to Cummins. They also stay within their skill set. They build engines and nothing else that I'm aware of.

 

[Coaldust]

What a time to be alive. We witnessed massive and constant change in engine emissions from 2004 to 2011. Especially the truck side. Our truck engine techs were dealing with bi-weekly software updates. Cat Truck Engine News publications got thicker and more often. Impossible to keep up with. Cat was spending 1 million bucks a day with ACERT development.

Remember International and their, “ We won’t use EGR!” Campaign? They purchased banked credits as long as they could and then the EPA almost put them out of biz with fines.

The worst part about it is all the people and customers that got stuck with these “bridge engines” that never worked right.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Remember International and their, “ We won’t use EGR!” Campaign? They purchased banked credits as long as they could and then the EPA almost put them out of biz with fines.

The worst part about it is all the people and customers that got stuck with these “bridge engines” that never worked right.

I thought that was "we won't use SCR" and were using something like 30% EGR and ridiculous boost instead. Or was there an anti-EGR phase before that?

 

[92U 3406]

Cat just called it NRS or CGI. NOx Reduction System or Clean Gas Induction.

For some reason Cat loves to make up new terms for items that already exist.

 

[Coaldust]

You are correct about that, Birken. Those International advertisements were entertaining.

Yeah, funny about Cat calling their EGR system CGI. Oh’ no, it’s not EGR. We use inert gas produced post- aftertreatment. With enough hard pipe and tube to plumb a house. And a spark plug to light the exhaust on fire, because let’s pump raw diesel into the exhaust and light it on fire.

Wait, what? Talk about thread drift. What were we discussing, again? How expensive Caterpillar equipment is or something?

 

[Rihpper]

I’m curious. My u48-5 was like $71k, the equivalent 305 is like $90+.

What is the difference? I’ve never ran a cat so curious.

Part of it can be the dealer, there is large price differences from dealer to dealer. Some dealers are very competitive compared to other brands.

 

[Coaldust]

Compare a Kubota distributor to a Caterpillar dealer corporate campus. The Kubota dealer looks like a buy here/pay here roadside used car lot. At the Cat dealer, I can get a complementary mocha from a well - endowed barista , shop at the gift store, a bag of popcorn and stroll through the museum.

 

[zeroo]

So i guess the consensus is that the performance/reliability has nothing to do with it. Mostly just the cost of the yellow paint. And kubota dealers are still mom/pop wile cat is a monster global company that enjoys huge profits from dedicated customers, kinda like the cultist mentality Deere experiences from their followers. Its a shame those 2 companies charge their customers a premium.

 

[Rihpper]

So i guess the consensus is that the performance/reliability has nothing to do with it. Mostly just the cost of the yellow paint. And kubota dealers are still mom/pop wile cat is a monster global company that enjoys huge profits from dedicated customers, kinda like the cultist mentality Deere experiences from their followers. Its a shame those 2 companies charge their customers a premium.

I don’t necessarily agree, A lot of the CAT machines have more features the the competition. For example, my 309 gas slope indicate where it shows two axis slope on the screen, it also has a 2nd auxiliary with a dedicated high flow pump. ( I don’t think kubotas have that). The biggest issue for me is parts availability. With CAT 95 % of the orders are at the local drop box the next morning. The other 5% are there within a couple days to a week depending if they come from the east coast or most recently Australia and japan with no freight cost.

 

[f311fr1]

Look for the mobile service truck and tech at your local Kubota dealer. What they don't have one??? I priced a new 308 vs an equivalent Kubota excavator. Within 4K $$ and no service and who knows about parts? The decision was real easy for me. I use this machine every day. Not just on the farm every now and then.

 

[John C.]

The biggest differences I see, besides service, are life cycle costs and resale values. If you are planning on making a living using the Kubota, you better plan on selling it down the road and getting another or a different brand.

 

[zeroo]

Look for the mobile service truck and tech at your local Kubota dealer. What they don't have one??? I priced a new 308 vs an equivalent Kubota excavator. Within 4K $$ and no service and who knows about parts? The decision was real easy for me. I use this machine every day. Not just on the farm every now and then.

I deal with 7 dealers and 4 have trucks that i know of. Generally kubotas dont break….LOL

Easy, that was a joke. But cat has monster old iron out there pushing dirt, kubota doesnt. That in itself needs that expensive service truck from time to time. For people like me (plumbing contractor/farm) the premium doesnt add up for our smaller equipment. I looked at a 304 but was not impressed with cab. Didnt run it though so that has me curious if the huge cost difference is. Kubota has grown greatly over the years, especially in ag. People keep mentioning parts, I’ve not experienced any parts related issues with kubota, but again us little guys dont break much.

On edit, i am experiencing parts issues with massey. My old tractor has some broken plastic cab trim parts and they have become “obsolete” or discontinued. Its a 2002.

 

[zeroo]

The biggest differences I see, besides service, are life cycle costs and resale values. If you are planning on making a living using the Kubota, you better plan on selling it down the road and getting another or a different brand.

I’ve been using a kubota for my plumbing company since 2008, I’ve scratched up a penny or 2 with them. Before that i used case and Deere tlb.

 

[zeroo]

As a reference, last year i was quoted $77k otd for a kx057-4(cab/bucket/thumb)
Cat 305.5 sell for about that with 1000-1500hr. I only have one cat dealer thats local and they are impossible to deal with if your price conscious.