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Cat vs John Deere Dozers

lpnt65

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I agree with ih100 the Allis Chalmers, InternationaL Harvester , Euclid were all good machines in their day, The Fiat Alliss FD 31 buried a new Cat D10 on coal stockpile, so you want . to skin a Cat put another brand beside. it.Cats are more expensive to purchase., Komatsu are Cats only opposition in the Larger machines there's nothing wrong with Komatsu.they are reliable. I used to have a break down on costs of running various Machines Cat was the most expensive {Dozer} to run to repair many will dispute this.\," well" go ahead you welcome. it is free to dispute but it cost dollars to fix a CAT
 

steve.k

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owner operator oilfield construction company.
Cat May sell the most but are far from the BEST

It is interesting to note John Deere sells more crawlers in the 80-200hp line then anyone else?They do have a tough tractor most to the thanks of Liehberr where these tractors are based from.It is also interesting to note that in the late sixties IHC was the leader in terms of Sales and most likely in innovation.Give Cat credit for setting up a dealer network that is unmatched and being able to promote product.As far as being tougher than the rest I doubt it,we've ran just about every type there is and they all seem to have good and bad points.I've stayed away from Cat just because of there extra cost and no extra performance gains for the cost.It just didn't add up for me.
 

hvy 1ton

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They do have a tough tractor most to the thanks of Liehberr where these tractors are based from.

I'd say that's not quite right. 950 and 1050 are the only Liebherr dozers Licensed by Deere. . Track loaders were liebherr until the new K series. Liebherr buys the 700 from Deere because it's better than anything they can build. A side story; Liebherr had a PR764(D8) sitting at Conexpo for 3 years and finally dumped it at RB back in march. I'd say liebherr dozers don't have the best rep in NA.
 

steve.k

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John Deere Hydros

The Hydrostatic tec that john deere has all comes from Liehberr under licence built in USA.They had a joint agreement with them to build their small line dozers,your right about the 950 and 1050 which were complete Liehberr dozers painted John Deere colors.Your also right about Liehberr's rep in North America but that doesnt mean its a bad tractor,if you paint it green(pr764) it would be a 1050.
 

Deereman

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steve k, No one said that deere sold more in that size class then cat. But the market share is alot closer then what it used to be. As as far as the your tech telling you that about smaller deere dozers is off like hvy1ton said.
 

farm_boy

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The sunflower state
The Hydrostatic tec that john deere has all comes from Liehberr under licence built in USA.

All Liehberr tractors use a Linde system. All 450 - 850's use a Sauer-Danfoss system

They had a joint agreement with them to build their small line dozers,

The only dozer that Liebherr and Deere have a relationship with other than the 950/1050 is the 700J which is painted yellow and white and is sold as the PR714 in Europe. Liebherr has nothing to do with the design of the 450 - 850.

if you paint it green(pr764) it would be a 1050.

Deere dozers have never been green. Furthermore the PR764 is the next size bigger tractor than the 1050J. The PR754 is the 1050J sized machine in which there are differences between the two tractors. Most noteably the transmission control and software.
 

cutting edge

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The Hydrostatic tec that john deere has all comes from Liehberr under licence built in USA.They had a joint agreement with them to build their small line dozers,your right about the 950 and 1050 which were complete Liehberr dozers painted John Deere colors.Your also right about Liehberr's rep in North America but that doesnt mean its a bad tractor,if you paint it green(pr764) it would be a 1050.
You're also wrong about the hydrostatic system....it has more in common with a Bombardier snowcat than it does a liebherr crawler.
 

steve.k

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John Deere green

All Liehberr tractors use a Linde system. All 450 - 850's use a Sauer-Danfoss system



The only dozer that Liebherr and Deere have a relationship with other than the 950/1050 is the 700J which is painted yellow and white and is sold as the PR714 in Europe. Liebherr has nothing to do with the design of the 450 - 850.



Deere dozers have never been green. Furthermore the PR764 is the next size bigger tractor than the 1050J. The PR754 is the 1050J sized machine in which there are differences between the two tractors. Most noteably the transmission control and software.
The John Deere Green was abit of a joke (as in tractors)but I guess you didn't get it.The last time I looked the 1050 was a 8 size tractor being 335 hp??The 950 is a 7r size tractor being 247 hp Thats what I was talking about.I'm not bashing John Deere I own 2 750's.If you talk to someone in the know they will also tell you that they worked with Liehberr to get the Tecnology for there small dozer line.My point of this whole thread was there small line out sells Cat which it does that is no secret.In fact they outsell everyone up to 200hp
 

hvy 1ton

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The last time I looked the 1050 was a 8 size tractor being 335 hp??The 950 is a 7r size tractor being 247 hp Thats what I was talking about. If you talk to someone in the know they will also tell you that they worked with Liehberr to get the Tecnology for there small dozer line.

The PR754 is closer to an 8K. The PR764 is supposed to compete with high drive D8's and D9H's.:pointhead Here is an excerpt from a 2000 press release on the Deere/Liebherr relationship (same year Deere started the H dozers). Notice it doesn't mention any kind of licensing outside the 950/1050 and track loaders. Deere cleaned out their media archives, so i can't find the original press release from Jan 2000. I bet farm_boy could if you need primary sources. Think about it for a moment, if all the tech came from liebherr why do they buy 700's from Deere?


Deere dozers have never been green.
Didn't they paint the 1010's or something green?:D
 

farm_boy

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The PR754 is closer to an 8K. The PR764 is supposed to compete with high drive D8's and D9H's.:pointhead

The PR764 is a D9T size tractor - 116K lbs/417HP. The PR754 is a D8T size tractor - 90K lbs/335HP. Check out Liebherr's web site here

Didn't they paint the 1010's or something green?:D

OK....technically yes. You got me there. :rolleyes:
 

coalrulz

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Good Question
Baseless claims.

The John Deere Green was abit of a joke (as in tractors)but I guess you didn't get it.The last time I looked the 1050 was a 8 size tractor being 335 hp??The 950 is a 7r size tractor being 247 hp Thats what I was talking about.I'm not bashing John Deere I own 2 750's.If you talk to someone in the know they will also tell you that they worked with Liehberr to get the Tecnology for there small dozer line.My point of this whole thread was there small line out sells Cat which it does that is no secret.In fact they outsell everyone up to 200hp

steve.k, It seems that you have a propensity for spreading rumors or at least distorting the thuth. You say that "someone in the know" will tell us that John Deere owes the technology for small dozer hydrostat to Liehberr, I say incorrect and ask you to put your money where your mouth is and provide proof. If you lack proof then please quit spreading your distorted version of the truth. I worked for Deere as a mechanic for 12 years and looking at Lieberr's hydrostats and Deere's, they share few similarities. I believe this forum promotes facts to back up claims, I am calling you out, provide proof or be silent on subjects where your knowledge is lacking.
 

steve.k

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I guess that works both ways

steve.k, It seems that you have a propensity for spreading rumors or at least distorting the thuth. You say that "someone in the know" will tell us that John Deere owes the technology for small dozer hydrostat to Liehberr, I say incorrect and ask you to put your money where your mouth is and provide proof. If you lack proof then please quit spreading your distorted version of the truth. I worked for Deere as a mechanic for 12 years and looking at Lieberr's hydrostats and Deere's, they share few similarities. I believe this forum promotes facts to back up claims, I am calling you out, provide proof or be silent on subjects where your knowledge is lacking.
Coalrulz,I received my info from The John Deere reps from Red Deer and I'm not saying that John Deere's machine is a copy of Liebehr exactly.John Deere has had working agreements with Liebehr for years that is no secret,they needed refinements for their dozers so as part of those agreements it was shared.This happens with nearly all manufactures it has happend with IHC/Komatsu eventually leading to Komatsu buying part of IHC/Dresser. oh and I wonder where John Deere received there hoe tecnology?Dont spose those look any thing like Hitatchi either.Its cheaper for them to use the hydraulic products that are available here,but the design paremeters were efforts from both companies?If you need documents I;ll see what I can do.I bet you didn't know that the komatsu line of loaders came from IHC,then Dresser.Thats right I got that info right from Dressta's North American Rep two weeks ago over lunch!So for the most part I dont spread the Bunk you accuse me of! Here is and interesting linkhttp://www.deere.com/en_US/rg/infocenter/infoevents/pr/2007/service_network.html.
 
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cutting edge

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upper canuckistan
You're also wrong about the hydrostatic system....it has more in common with a Bombardier snowcat than it does a liebherr crawler.

Coalrulz,I received my info from The John Deere reps from Red Deer and I'm not saying that John Deere's machine is a copy of Liebehr exactly.John Deere has had working agreements with Liebehr for years that is no secret,they needed refinements for their dozers so as part of those agreements it was shared.This happens with nearly all manufactures it has happend with IHC/Komatsu eventually leading to Komatsu buying part of IHC/Dresser. oh and I wonder where John Deere received there hoe tecnology?Dont spose those look any thing like Hitatchi either.Its cheaper for them to use the hydraulic products that are available here,but the design paremeters were efforts from both companies?If you need documents I;ll see what I can do.I bet you didn't know that the komatsu line of loaders came from IHC,then Dresser.Thats right I got that info right from Dressta's North American Rep two weeks ago over lunch!So for the most part I dont spread the Bunk you accuse me of!

Guess you missed my post.

The Sauer Sunstrand system found in the 450-850 h and j crawlers has nothing to do with liebherr. The 950 and 1050 j's are the only liebeherr dozers with deere stickers. Your rep in Red Deer is talking out of his arse.

Nothing Liebherr has ever offered has "refined" any of Deere's products.I hope the departure with the trackloader line is the beginning of a full step away from Liebherrs "technologies".....especially with the small frame loaders.
 
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steve.k

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Your Sure about that Cutting Edge If you read the whole post you would understand what is being said.I dont really care whos pumps and hydraulic system they use Its the idea of putting it altogether I'm talking about.And no I didn't miss it!
 
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steve.k

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John Deere j series pumps

I find it interesting that John deere is using Sauer-Danfoss hydraulics in their crawlers which just happens to be a Danish/German company the very same company Liehberr has joint agreements with??http://www.sauer-danfoss.com/stellent/groups/publications/documents/product_literature/520l0987.pdf Here is a link that talks about the joint agreements between John Deere,Liehberr and Sauer-Danfuss.It is all just a little to coincidental for me??If you remember back to the mid eighties the jd line of dozers were pretty sad,then all of a sudden their dozers did a 180 and they are starting to lead the way??It also seems it was close to the time they do a deal with liehberr on loader tecnology Hmmm?I also find it hard to beleive everyone excepts the fact that JD is using Hitatchi Hoes but they don't beleive they are teamed up with Liehberr also?Read the link scroll down to the John Deere loader and read the paragraph about part of the team?This mentions alot about the 3 companies working together to design systems for crwlwer dozers starting in about 1997???That should clear up alot!!It also mentions the fact Liehberr contacted Sauer-Danfoss to design a system for the new 605 john Deere loader?????After the success of 650j crawler dozer????? What! Why would they do that when they are not affiliated?????
 
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Deereman

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Steve K,
Well you can clearly read that Sauer-Danfoss and Liebherr are TWO different companies. And this was the first time Liebherr and S-D had worked together, but Deere has used them for a while. And this is not really an " joint agreement" page. It would out line the details.. And No the 450's where a pretty popular dozer for that time and there are plenty of them still around.. When Deere starting offering the bigger dozers in 89 with the 650 deere had a bigger market and maybe some of the reason for the success.(yes I know that the 750 and 850's were out before that) And Again with Deere-hitachi, Its a joint venture. Not all Hitachi. 50-50. Actually Deere pretty much has the say in the U.S. when it comes to Hitachi. You seem to be mixing what it says. Yes Deere is partnered with Liebherr, Bell, Hitachi, Letourneau, and has bought out a few as well.. Anyway, that was a good read Steve K. Thanks for finding it. When it gets down to it, I have no problem people commenting and even showing me something new with deere, but I just want it to be straight. Its like 10 people reading the bible(the ones that do) reading one scripture and getting 10 different things Everyone needs to be on the same page.
 

steve.k

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Steve K,
Well you can clearly read that Sauer-Danfoss and Liebherr are TWO different companies. And this was the first time Liebherr and S-D had worked together, but Deere has used them for a while. And this is not really an " joint agreement" page. It would out line the details.. And No the 450's where a pretty popular dozer for that time and there are plenty of them still around.. When Deere starting offering the bigger dozers in 89 with the 650 deere had a bigger market and maybe some of the reason for the success.(yes I know that the 750 and 850's were out before that) And Again with Deere-hitachi, Its a joint venture. Not all Hitachi. 50-50. Actually Deere pretty much has the say in the U.S. when it comes to Hitachi. You seem to be mixing what it says. Yes Deere is partnered with Liebherr, Bell, Hitachi, Letourneau, and has bought out a few as well.. Anyway, that was a good read Steve K. Thanks for finding it. When it gets down to it, I have no problem people commenting and even showing me something new with deere, but I just want it to be straight. Its like 10 people reading the bible(the ones that do) reading one scripture and getting 10 different things Everyone needs to be on the same page.

Deerfan I give up!!It clearly states that Liehberr brought S.D to the table to design a system for john Deeres 605.After the success of the 650j ( which I assume they also designed)!I don't know what else to tell you, other than a written note from the CEO ofJohn Deere.If you ask me the writings on the wall,and as far as Hitatchi goes they are their own Idenetity.John Deere doesnt tell them anything.And the John Deere hoes are Hitatchi with JD engines end of story.The early Jd crawlers Were poor and if it wasn't for Liebherr we would still have a gearshift between our legs and the long lever steering clutch.I guess the whole Just of this thread is to prove that Liehberr was involved with Jd's small dozers, the 650j which they make reference to is clearly stated.We do not know which others were involved but me being a guessing man I would say probably all. I do have a e-mail in to the vp of marketing and hopefully he can clerify which I'm sure he will be happy to!Most of them are eager to help!It also states that Liebherr builds a number of loaders and dozers for Jd,it also states that SD worked as a team with Liebherr and Jd as far back as 97 in a joint effort????How much more is needed?
 
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cutting edge

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I find it interesting that John deere is using Sauer-Danfoss hydraulics in their crawlers which just happens to be a Danish/German company the very same company Liehberr has joint agreements with??http://www.sauer-danfoss.com/stellent/groups/publications/documents/product_literature/520l0987.pdf Here is a link that talks about the joint agreements between John Deere,Liehberr and Sauer-Danfuss.It is all just a little to coincidental for me??If you remember back to the mid eighties the jd line of dozers were pretty sad,then all of a sudden their dozers did a 180 and they are starting to lead the way??It also seems it was close to the time they do a deal with liehberr on loader tecnology Hmmm?I also find it hard to beleive everyone excepts the fact that JD is using Hitatchi Hoes but they don't beleive they are teamed up with Liehberr also?Read the link scroll down to the John Deere loader and read the paragraph about part of the team?This mentions alot about the 3 companies working together to design systems for crwlwer dozers starting in about 1997???That should clear up alot!!It also mentions the fact Liehberr contacted Sauer-Danfoss to design a system for the new 605 john Deere loader?????After the success of 650j crawler dozer????? What! Why would they do that when they are not affiliated?????

Although Sauer-Danfoss has for many years delivered systems and components to John Deere,the project marked the first cooperation with Liebherr

Taken from page 8 of your PDF.

the drive system is not unique to liebherr,or deere for that matter but liebherr wanted to use the proven drivtrain that deere was already using in a similar sized machine.

Furthermore, the c series crawler loader was a liebherr with a deere engine paint and stickers.

The new K series is 100% Deere.

This is getting silly....but take it from someone who honestly knows...the small/mid sized deere DOZERS are 100% Deere.

....and Liebherr can have their POS wheel loaders back
 
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steve.k

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YaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Right

Taken from page 8 of your PDF.

the drive system is not unique to liebherr,or deere for that matter but liebherr wanted to use the proven drivtrain that deere was already using in a similar sized machine.

Furthermore, the c series crawler loader was a liebherr with a deere engine paint and stickers.

The new K series is 100% Deere.

This is getting silly....but take it from someone who honestly knows...the small/mid sized deere DOZERS are 100% Deere.

....and Liebherr can have their POS wheel loaders back
I give a Rats --- about the loaders,This is about JD and Liehberr working together on dozers which they obviously have since at least 1997!It was probably before that but who knows.And you know a 100% ya right are you a deere executive???????????????????? Didn't think so!
 
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