Cat 980 K

[Robsop1]

Looks tough , but I have not seen one at my dealership yet , anyone got one on a jobsite yet ?

 

[Nige]

I guess that they will soon com the Europe then! Is the lock-up torque converter standard or optional?

According to the 980K Specalog the Lockup Torque Converter is an option. I'd see a need for it in load & carry operations but not for much else.

 

[Magnum]

You´re right about that Nige, it is for load & carry and you do save a lot of fuel with a lock up torque converter. I have heard some rumors that Cat have got big problems gettin the Tier 4i stuff work ok even the engines that they sell to some other manufacturer has got big time problems. Volvo have shipped machines to customers all year, where are the others??

 

[Per Eriksson]

Funny, we keep hearing the same rumors but opposite, volvo even had trouble keeping a machine running during a competetive test with Cat a while ago here.

I've talked to a crusher owner that's running an older loaner machine while he wait's for hsi new 220G that's sitting in the shop waiting for rework to be done on the engine and it is brand new not yet delivered even.

So I think it is mostly smack talk and we'll just have to wait too see who comes out on top.

 

[Magnum]

Ok, so was that test between a G-series Volvo and K-series Cat? Which one came out on top of that test?

I´ve also heard about different updates, something about air getting into the system and sets the system out of play. But one guy I talked to in Sweden a couple of days ago runs a L220G with no problems at all regarding the "crap" under the hood.
One rumor that I heard from a guy at the Swedish Volvo dealer was that the Cat machines displayed at Con-Expo had locked engine compartments and the engines where Tier 3 engines... The rumor came from Cat´s own staff which is interresting.
Do you know then if there are any Cat machines delivered to customers yet cause the only thing you can find so far on the internet is Cat marketing material, no real customer photos or movies, Komatsus does´nt exist at all.

 

[Nige]

You´re right about that Nige, it is for load & carry and you do save a lot of fuel with a lock up torque converter.

Completely agree regarding the fuel savings in a load & carry operation. However the problem with lockup torque converters on wheel loaders in my personal experience is that the freewheel stator mechanism that is necessary for the lockup to function is, shall we say, less than 100% reliable. I'd estimate more than 50% of TC failures I've seen were the one-way clutch that fixes the freewheel stator in position. In fact the 994 loader had a lockup clutch and freewheel stator as standard up to the F coming out, at which time it was removed and replaced with a fixed stator along with extra cooling to handle the higher heat rejection.

Why the freewheel mechasm should be less reliable on a wheel loader than it is on an off-highway truck (which all have them) I have no idea.

 

[Per Eriksson]

First delivery of K series to customers in Sweden is planned to January/February 2012.

I've personally seen and driven 2 different K loaders that has tier4 engines so they are for real.

 

[Magnum]

Ok. So how come that they are one year late? Final date for tier 3 above 130 kW was 31/12-11. I mean, it cant be on purpose or does Cat want to pay the fines for not fulfilling the emission regulations?

 

[NFDDJS]

I was in a CAT 966K last Tuesday and they are great BUT I did ask about the tier 4 and how are they not putting the DEF fluid in there equipment like lost of other people are using. I was told the CAT equipment motors are much like the CAT truck motors in the new trucks they have. What I have been reading about those new CAT trucks is that it is more or less a Internation and it you do anything with trucking they are the ONLY truck motor that is not burning the DEF fluid and they have been having many problems... I can only hope that CAT has got it right. One thing that is going to add to the cost of running these is every 8000-8500 hours you need to replace the DPF filter at $8000. This is what I was told, also the new K model will be about $12000-15000 more then the H model across the board. I dont know about you all but I dont like the new K model $12000 + $8000 more then the H model. I would like to keep that $20,000 in the first 8000 hours...

 

[GeoffD]

Cat Tier 4 uses emissions technology like on the 07 on highway truck engines. These engines are different than the engines being used in the CT 660. The tier 4 stuff has ard heads that burn off exhaust gasses thats how they are meeting emissions.

 

[John C.]

As far as the technology and extra cost goes, you don't have a choice because everybody's using some sort of pollution reduction device and everybody's prices are going up. I haven't heard of anyone that is not having some kinds of troubles with the new systems.

As far as when the items have to be replaced, I've heard that no one really knows for sure because so much depends on the maintenance being done.

So far everything is a wait and see.

 

[Lee-online]

Cat will be using the DEF In the tier 4 final which will be coming out in the next year or two. Right now there is only tier 4 interim, this is a stepping stone between tier 3 and tier 4 final.

As for the DPF, It will need to be removed and cleaned or replaced with a reman. The time frame this happens at depends on the machine and how it is maintained, ULSD, low ash deo etc. There is a soot sensor to tell when it is full.

 

[NFDDJS]

O am not sure how long it will be before they start using DEF fluid but I do know if you talk to a CAT sales rep right now about the trucks or equipment on of the things they keep bring up is how they have set up these new motors so that they will not need to have DEF fluid at all. I know internation is doing the same thing. Also from what I was told from the CAT dealer the DPF filters are only built for around 8000 hours. I also talked to him about how much longer we should see if we are getting them cleaned with the new DPF filter cleaning machine they have and he said they were all told that the 8000 hour life expediency was with doing what they recommend for cleaning. They the DPF filters after 8000 hours of heating up and cooling off just cant hold up much after 8000 hours. I am sure some guys might see more but I have been dealing with the DPF filters on 2 of my trucks and they are an added cost we all dont need...

 

[Magnum]

There are at least two different ways of meeting the tier 4i and stage 3B regulations. One is to fine tune the engine so that the level of soot out from the engine is low but then the level of NOx is higher so then you need to add DEF fluid which brings down the NOx. The second way is to bring down the NOx in the combustion chamber but then the level of soot out of the engine is to high so you need to add a DPF and perhaps a DOC depending on if you are using passive or active regeneration. I believe that the reason for some of the manufacturers to choose the DPF solution is that it might be difficult to buy DEF fluid in some countries, the DEF fluid tanks must be heated since the liquid crystallizes below 11 degres C and it is also very agressive to metal. It is an extra cost for the machine owner to buy the DEF liquid.
On the other hand, the DPF filter needs to be replaced after a while so that is also an extra cost for the machine owner.
I think it will be interresting to se what will happend in january first 2014, by then probably all manufacturers will have to use both DEF fluid and DPF to meet the regulations.

 

[rare ss]

There are at least two different ways of meeting the tier 4i and stage 3B regulations. One is to fine tune the engine so that the level of soot out from the engine is low but then the level of NOx is higher so then you need to add DEF fluid which brings down the NOx. The second way is to bring down the NOx in the combustion chamber but then the level of soot out of the engine is to high so you need to add a DPF and perhaps a DOC depending on if you are using passive or active regeneration. I believe that the reason for some of the manufacturers to choose the DPF solution is that it might be difficult to buy DEF fluid in some countries, the DEF fluid tanks must be heated since the liquid crystallizes below 11 degres C and it is also very agressive to metal. It is an extra cost for the machine owner to buy the DEF liquid.
On the other hand, the DPF filter needs to be replaced after a while so that is also an extra cost for the machine owner.
I think it will be interresting to se what will happend in january first 2014, by then probably all manufacturers will have to use both DEF fluid and DPF to meet the regulations.

We've got the other extreme down here with SCR (DEF AdBlue) additives, our fleet runs in 40 to 50 degree heat for most of the year which the fluids dont like, they recommend temp ranges of 11/36, for onhighway trucks we only run EGR or DPF at this stage but it restricts HP due to the engines running hotter and not having enough heat displacement, we've got some Scania R620 Prime movers coming with SCR comming but