Cat 308D: for digging out stumps

[alex111]

I have about 25 acres of land which has a lot of ground level cut stumps on it, estimating around 300 stumps in total. The largest stumps are up to 3' diameter, mostly oak and pine, but probably several other species of tree as well.

Can a Cat 308D handle this (assume it is a fully sound machine, no mechanical problems).

My first thought was to get a powerful tractor (~100HP PTO) and put a backhoe on it as I need a tractor anyway, but big backhoes are hard to find, and really expensive. So maybe an excavator would be a better idea, do the de-stumping (and other serious digging) with it, then sell it and get a smaller tractor, as I won't need that much power once the stumps are gone.

All advice and insights are welcome, thank you!

 

[skyking1]

for 25 acres of up to 3' stumps, I would not mess around with an 8 ton class machine and then sell it. Get a 12~20 ton machine and sell it. Even bigger yet, if you buy it right.
The fact that they are low topped just adds to the difficulty of removal.
Don't get me wrong, I can dig out a 3' stump with a 3 ton machine but my time is worth more than that. Where a 20 ton just breaks two roots and out it comes, you will dig for 5~10 minutes to dig the same stump with an 8 ton.

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums Alex!

First of all tell us a little about your background. How much equipment and mechanic experience do you have?

Will the machine be delivered once and when you're done are you going to sell it?

First thoughts -
8 ton machines are some of the most expensive excavators used per LB.
An 8 ton machine is woefully small to stump 25 acres

My suggestion (depending on your experience) is a 25-30 ton machine. Buy it, use it then sell it.

Just my $.02

 

[alex111]

@skyking1 thank you for your response.

I would love to go with a bigger machine, but my budget is only around $60k. The 308D is about the best I could find that fits in that range, if I want something that doesn't look like it needs a lot of expensive repair. Given that budget, do you think I'd be making a good choice? Would you go a different route?

 

[alex111]

@CM1995 thank you for the welcome!

I have some tractor operating experience. I grew up on a farm and operated grass cutters and balers in my teens, and did a fair amount of digging work with backhoes. Have also owned and used a ~80HP tractor with front loader and backhoe, clearing land, digging ditches, removing some bigger rocks. Have also operated skid steers a few times, and a dozer once.
I have done what would probably be considered light work on these and other types of machines. Have no formal mech. education though - I only read books and watch videos etc, and mimic.
I have not operated an excavator before, but operating a small or medium size one does not scare me. I would probably not want to get into heavy mechanic work to fix one up before I can use it, however.

Yes, the idea is to have it delivered to my property, use it (and hopefully not mess it up), and then sell it.

What budget do you think a 25-30 ton machine (that is operational) would require? From looking myself, I think these would be out of my reach, but maybe I am not looking in the right places?

 

[skyking1]

you need to get some help finding the machine. Somebody who is in the business and not interested in making a percentage profit off of you.
I am not kidding that you could get a functional large machine that is * good enough * to do your job in that budget, and probably not lose value in the process. What happens with larger machines it they get to a point and an age that they are no longer viable for high production, but still have service life in tracks and are reasonably tight. The prices are not that bad.
The move would eat up the rest of your budget, but this is just an example of what might be an OK machine.
https://www.equipmenttrader.com/listing/2005-CATERPILLAR-325CL-5021175744

If I was tasked with stumping 25 acres I would much rather have this 325, even with the simple thumb, than any light machine.

 

[skyking1]

you can also get a no thumb machine and just walk through and get the stumps out and sell it. Buy a smaller thumb machine to keep after the hard work is done. Stumping is one of those jobs where size really matters

 

[alex111]

Indeed, I went to the listing you sent, and that is about the same price as the 308D, but obviously far more capable.

That particular machine happens to be really far from me (I'm down in Florida), but I started looking for other machines in a similar weight class, and came up with a few more local options.

What do you think about a Deere 270D LC for the job? It is just about the same weight and net power from what I can see. The unit I'm looking at is a little more expensive, but with shipping on the other, it would come to about the same price.

Thank you for your advice, very much appreciate it.

 

[skyking1]

get the machine checked out by a third party, whatever you do.
I found several examples in Florida at mylittlesalesman, bigger machines than that. Once they get to 25 ton and more, finding thumbs becomes an issue. I was serious about a non-thumb machine. you can rip out the stumps and get rid of it. If you buy it right you'll do OK.

 

[Acoals]

If all you really need to do is stump the property, I would just rent a machine. A week with a 40,000lb machine will get those stumps cleared right out. You are going to spend more than the rental cost on the first repair you will have on a 270.
Even if you kept the machine for a month it would be maybe $6-7,000 on a rental.

There are an awful lot of threads on here of people who buy a machine to fix up their property and then sell it. The Agony. Despair. Shock. Depletion of funds.

A 25 ton excavator gets awfully expensive to fix, even when you are making money with it. And they all need fixing.

 

[ianjoub]

Where are you in FL? I am an hour north of Tampa. It is all sand here. A good size front loader with a rake will rip all those stumps out of the ground, and do it quickly.

https://www.equipmentfacts.com/list...ction-results/213788751/2006-komatsu-wa400-5l

Sold for $13k yesterday. It has about 35,000# of lift. You poke the rake in and curl the bucket. 3' stumps pop right out of sand with that.

In fact, 2 sold for the same price yesterday:

https://www.equipmentfacts.com/list...ction-results/213788409/2006-komatsu-wa400-5l

 

[alex111]

If all you really need to do is stump the property, I would just rent a machine. A week with a 40,000lb machine will get those stumps cleared right out. You are going to spend more than the rental cost on the first repair you will have on a 270.
Even if you kept the machine for a month it would be maybe $6-7,000 on a rental.

There are an awful lot of threads on here of people who buy a machine to fix up their property and then sell it. The Agony. Despair. Shock. Depletion of funds.

A 25 ton excavator gets awfully expensive to fix, even when you are making money with it. And they all need fixing.

Interesting take. I did check out some rentals as well. A few things I considered there:
1. I'm not confident on how fast I can get it done - I'm sure it will take me longer to do the work than someone experience.
2. If I did buy a machine, I would do more than just remove the stumps as I would have as much time as I want. Prep ground for a future pool, remove several still standing trees, improve a few ponds on the property.

If I was a pro level operator maybe I could knock all that out in 2 weeks without breaking a sweat, but I am not, lol.

I appreciate your point on cost of ownership. Approximately how much do you think I could expect to spend on repairs after a month's work with an average older 25-30 ton machine, with say ~10k hours on it already? I would be a newbie operator, but a careful one, very risk aware.

If I could get all the things done that I mentioned above, I think it would be worth losing some $15-20k worth of investment, so I would not be in too much despair if I end up selling the machine back into the market for a bit less than I paid. This is considering how much it would cost if I paid a professional to do this for me (I have gotten quotes far in excess of that for it).

 

[alex111]

Where are you in FL? I am an hour north of Tampa. It is all sand here. A good size front loader with a rake will rip all those stumps out of the ground, and do it quickly.

https://www.equipmentfacts.com/list...ction-results/213788751/2006-komatsu-wa400-5l

Sold for $13k yesterday. It has about 35,000# of lift. You poke the rake in and curl the bucket. 3' stumps pop right out of sand with that.

In fact, 2 sold for the same price yesterday:

https://www.equipmentfacts.com/list...ction-results/213788409/2006-komatsu-wa400-5l

I am over in Reddick, 30 min northwest of Ocala, so probably not far from you. It's definitely pretty sandy here too.

So if I had bought this particular loader that you linked to, what type of attachment would I need to get for it - a bucket with a rake?

Would this work on a property with some slopes (nothing to serious) and a lot of water on it (3 ponds, spring fed) - would the risk of sinking down and getting stuck a lot be significant, compared to a tracked vehicle?

 

[ianjoub]

At the price it sold for, I would likely get a grapple rake and a bucket. The ad said it had aux hydraulics (for the grapple).

Avoid wet/soft areas with heavy equipment. It is not worth the risk if you don't have another piece around to pull it out.

 

[skyking1]

you'll stick a loader far quicker than an excavator. You can bury either one if you don't take care.
This is also a hard expensive way to get experience.
When you know some things and have trees to get rid of, you can use the trees to get through swampy ground. Or you can mess up and lose the machine like all those pictures and videos.
In SE Alaska they would flip over the big cedar stumps in swampy ground and build the road right on them.
Perhaps I should retire to giving lessons around the country

 

[Acoals]

A 20 ton excavator will pull those stumps out without much skill on your part.
Costs? At 10,000 hours anything is possible. You could buy a machine, run it all summer, and sell it without touching it. Or you could buy it and wind up dumping 20k into it.

 

[Acoals]

Of course, if you were to rent a machine, there isn't much hope for an epic 50 page HEF thread, so there is that aspect to consider ....

 

[skyking1]

I've certainly entered the renter phase. I can get whatever I want and give it back, not my problems. I will buy a tractor with a brush hog because 4 acres.

 

[terex herder]

I know nothing about your soil conditions. Even different types of sand are different. I have both blow sand and river sand. The blow sand is easier to get stuck. But around here a 3' oak stump would be a week long exercise with a 8 ton hoe. Then after you got it loose, you wouldn't have enough hoe to roll the root ball out of the hole.

 

[CM1995]

We have so many rental outfits here that are renting cheap chinese excavator knock offs that you might want to consider renting. Like Acoals said a 25T machine will rent for $7-8K a month, $10K total with mob in/out, taxes and all the BS fees they charge. If it breaks send it back and get another one.

Only problem is insurance. If you don't have commercial insurance with a rental rider the rental store's insurance is expensive, might add another $500-1K a month.