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Cat 3000 Hour Code

Discussion in 'Compact Track/Multi Terrain Loaders' started by Kenskip1, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. Kenskip1

    Kenskip1 Well-Known Member

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    OK so today I was watching this video. At the 435 mark he states that Caterpillar 259D when it reaches the 3000 hour mark the computer throws a code and put the machine into limp mode.Can anyone shed some light on this? Is there any truth to this?He states that only a dealer is able to reset the computer and the EGR Regen code thereby restoring the machine to full working order.Sounds very expensive if you ask me, Ken
     
  2. Tags

    Tags Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure what he means is once the DPF filter is full it will do what he's saying. I'm pretty sure they give you a range of hours though, from somewhere around 3000 hours to somewhere around 5000 hours, it all depends on how hard the machine gets run as to when the DPF will need to be cleaned. At least that's what I think he's trying to say, I'm sure someone here probably has a little more knowledge on the subject than I do though.
     
  3. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    It's been discussed here many times before. All machines with DPF installed need to have the snot run out of them so that they regen correctly at the correct intervals. They do not take well to puttering around or idling stationary for long periods at low engine RPM.

    If the machine is run right the chances of it requiring a reset by the dealer are minimized.

    Basically he's talking out of his a$$ when he desribes the "reason why". If that's what he's thinking having just taken delivery of his new machine then God help him.
     
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  4. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    DPF has to be removed and the ash cleaned out at some point between 3,000 and 5,000 hours on Tier 4 interim machines. Those are generally the machines that don't use DEF Fluid. It used to be that someone had to hook up a lap top and use SIS to tell the computer that it had been done. I've been away from them for a bit so it may be different now with the use of DEF.
     
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  5. Kenskip1

    Kenskip1 Well-Known Member

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    First off, thanks for the replies. Would it be possible to remove the filter and vacuum or clean it manually? I suspect that the filter is basically a honeycomb design and is require to get very hot to burn the contaminants inside.On a skid steer this doesn't sound very likely, with the rpm being raised and lowered the temperature more than likely will never get to the "REGEN" temperature. If this situation happened to me with my temper i'd pull the filter off, put some diesel fuel inside and light the damn thing. Anyway thanks for the replies, Ken
     
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  6. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Those machines have passive regen so there is nothing you have to do except run them hard enough to keep the exhaust hot. As far as the built up ash in the exhaust goes, I don't know of anyway other than some kind of machine used to clean them out with. As far as I know there is nothing that can be done manually to clean them out. Cat dealer do provide exchange units that just swap in and out when the time comes. As far as I know, you still have to have the brain reset. If you find out something different, let us all know.
     
  7. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    It won't work. Don't ask me how I know this....:oops:
    That's what I mentioned before, you have to run the snot out of this type of engine to get the exhaust temperature up, not putter around or leave it idling for long periods.
    To anybody who worked with 2-stroke engines in years past it was a standard practice to burn out the carbon in an exhaust by getting it hot with an oxy-acetylene torch and when it took fire just feed it pure oxygen until it was burned out. I've never had the nerve to attempt that with a DPF although I was sorely tempted on one occasion.
    TBH any machine of that size that gets to 3000 hours is probably only fit for the knacker's yard anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  8. 512high

    512high Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have googled many things on this, many claim the filter can be cleaned or exchanged, how much does this cost?

    Example Kubota has a exchange program, take yours out , install theirs, send back the core if you would. How much is that? Does CAT or DEERE offer this in house? equipment to burn off, or do you have to buy new and if so I can't imagine , and would ET software be needed at all to reset anything?
     
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  9. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    I know Cat offered the exchange program when I left there. I don't know how much it costs. It probably depends on the type of machine and size. When I left it did require a lap top and software to reset the program.
     
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  10. walkerv

    walkerv Senior Member

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    I didn't watch the video and im not sure what hours the compact equipment does what. What i do know is a D8T with tier 4 final engine will turn on emmission service required message at 5k hours ,but it will still run fine no limp mode unless there is a problem. Sent machine to cat at 5600 hrs for the emmission service after they did the tracks and undercarriage, i went and inspected removes parts burner head aka ard head was getting eroded ,spark plug was definatly about toast and fuel injector was getting pretty coked up . Filter was reman exchange and et required to reset. Small machines suck and im pretty sure engine has to come out to service filter, quite a few truck dealers or for me a local radiator shop cleans dpf filters if your up to the diy task of getting them off.
     
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  11. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    I think most of CAT skid steers have a DPF service interval of 3000 hours.

    To my knowledge, no it will not de-rate once it hits 3000 hours. There is a service counter in the monitor and it will most likely just throw a warning reminder on the monitor at every key on to service the DPF.

    The dealer needs to come out and reset the derate if an operator allows the DPF to reach too high of level of soot. At its highest stage, you're buying a DPF because it is no longer useable.

    CAT actually does pretty good with the regen on their skid steers. There's a catalyst ahead of the DPF. When the DPF needs a regen, fuel is injected into the exhaust to "dose" the DOC. The diesel reacts with the DOC and creates the heat needed to perform the regen.
     
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  12. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    @walkerv on the skid steers I usually just go in from under the cab. I think its easier than yanking the engine out.
     
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  13. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    That's what the O&M recommendation is.
    I agree. There is nothing in the SysOp that indicates the engine will derate once the "Service the DPF" reminder message comes up on the monitor. I would've thought that with most users of this type of equipment moving their machinery around on a tag trailer then to get a reset done it would be just as easy to swing round to the dealer and have the reset done while the machine sits on the trailer.

    For those who aren't aware of it, the monitor contains "service counters" for all sorts of things. These include oil changes, filter servicing, etc, etc. When the appropriate hours clock up the monitor shows a message telling the operator that such-and-such is up for servicing. Some of thse intervals can be changed by the user to suit their specific servicing philosophy, others can't.
     
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  14. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    There are two types of regen.
    1. Passive regen. This occurs during normal operation of the machine IF the machine is being worked hard enough to get the exhaust hot enough. If the machine is not worked hard enough for passive regen to occur, then active regen must take place.
    2. Active regen. For this to happen either the operator must run the machine with the throttle dial in the upper range for a period of time, or the machine must be parked for the active regen to be carried out automatically. The exhaust temperature is raised by altering the fuel injection timing. If the operator doesn't allow active regen to take place, after a series of warnings, the engine will start to derate. If active regen STILL isn't allowed to occur, the engine will derate to almost idle and ET will be required to carry out the regen. Note also that active regen won't happen if the engine has any active fault codes present.
    The regen process burns the soot from the DPF. The DPF then collects the ash. The ash loading is calculated by the ECM based on time, fuel used and other variables. 3000 hours is the time limit recommended to either clean or replace the DPF. Nothing will happen if it isn't replaced at 3000 hours except the ash load will continue to increase. As the calculated ash load increases, active regen will occur more often. If the ash load gets to the point where regen is occuring more than every half-hour, error codes will be logged.

    When the DPF is either cleaned or replaced, ET must be used to reset the ash loading.

    Information in SIS on the emissions system is pretty fragmented and the above is based both on this and my own first hand experience. It applies only to D series skid steers with the Tier 4 interim Kubota engines. (Non SCR emissions systems, that is, engines that don't use DEF)
     
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  15. 512high

    512high Well-Known Member

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    Well said, my 2015 CAT 908M 99% sure uses a Kubota engine(pretty sure I saw that on engine, made for CAT etc.), my machine has 1300 hours, when I get to 3,000 hours or so CAN THE DPF filter be burnt out or cleaned by independent sources or is this controlled by CAT?

    1.) would I unbolt bring it to my CAT dealer and pick it up a day or so later? and how much to "burn/clean"
    2.) Do they exchange one for mine etc. if so what would that cost in us dollars?
    3.) And as others say, I then have to have them come to my shop, hook up the laptop and reset, etc another large field service bill....
     
  16. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    1. Yes, independent shops offer DPF cleaning and no, it isn't controlled by Cat.
    2. Not many dealers actually clean in-house and will use independent shops as above. You will have to ask.
    3. Exchange or new DPFs are available through the Cat parts system. This is the easiest way though not necessarily the cheapest.
    4. Yes, the ash loading will have to be reset, either by your dealer or an independent mechanic with ET.
    Just a note on the cleaning. They are not "burnt out". The burning of the soot takes place during regen. The cleaning is removing the ash. It's done either by high volume compressed air or by washing with some kind of liquid cleaner.

    *Edit. And another thing to note. To maximise the time between DPF cleanings make sure you are using the recommended Ultra Low Sulphur engine oil.*
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  17. 512high

    512high Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much for the informative explanation !
     
  18. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    You got that right. Finding emissions system information is like looking for a needle in a haystack. What amazes me is that unless I'm missing something Cat dealer techs ought not to have access to any more information about emissions equipment online than we do.
     
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  19. 512high

    512high Well-Known Member

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    Well I just looked up CAT #436-1068 kit-catalyst=$2,605.33 ! (gosh knows what other misc. parts), I think I would find an independent to clean, then call CAT to re-set with software, when the time comes, gosh do the bigger units that take DEF have issues like this or cheaper to maintain?
     
  20. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    It's not a question of size. Tier 4 final engines which use DEF don't, as far as I know, have a requirement to clean the DPF.

    I think we need a glossary:
    SIS - Cat's Service Information System
    ET - Cat's Electronic Technician
    DPF - Diesel Particulate filter
    SCR - Selective Catalytic Reduction ie. engines that use DEF
    DEF - Diesel Exhaust Fluid (urea)
     
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