Cat 17A fuel issue

[Tinkerer]

What does the crankcase blow-by look like? Any puffing while the engine is running ?
I have witnessed a D9 blowing the dipstick out of it's tube. But, it had a blown piston.

 

[hdsbc]

working right now on putting the injection pump back together so making progress coffee time haha. i can put my hand over the crank case breather and it dose not have any puffing coming out when the engine is hot and running its just a steady steam rising out of the breather. nothing out of the ordinary and the steam dose not puff it just continuously rises like a large slow kettle.

 

[Old Magnet]

Your on the right track. Get the #2 pump sorted out as it is probably the root cause of it all. Running a cylinder on inadequate fuel supply (lean burn) can lead to all sorts of problems as witnessed by engine knock, inadequately atomized fuel, cylinder wash down, piston and ring damage etc. I've witnessed an extreme case where conditions actually got to the point of crankcase explosion.
Check these pistons for damage when injection goes afoul...

 

[Old Magnet]

You stated that your not seeing bubbles in the fuel but while your at it make this check.
With the lines disconnected to the injectors, put a few drops of oil in the injector opening. Crank the engine and see if the oil is blown out of the inlet. This will give you a check on whether there is any compression leakage past the nozzle seat. Any leakage here can result in displacing fuel in the injection pumps.

 

[hdsbc]

Ok so here goes for my findings. I have reassembled the machine back ready for compression and fuel pressure check but that will have wait till tomorrow weather turned for the worse little bit of a blizzard.

so i did a spring compression test on all the lifters
#1 36.5 lbs #2 38 lbs #3 37lbs #4 37 lbs so the spring is defiantly not the problem. turns out the cylinder in question has the highest rebound force anyhow and all the lifter bores were not scored and the lifters moved easily up and down no evidence of cracking. by take a picture and looking at the picture.

Lifter length from roller to top
#1 3.586 #2 3.587 #3 3.585 #4 3.585 so lifters are all practically the same could be a little human error because i had to use a caliper, micrometer wouldn't fit since the jaw was not deep enough.

Piston plunger length book says spec is 2.6575 - 2.6577
#1 2.6576 #2 2.6577 #3 2.6576 #4 26576 all within spec
brand new one
book says no spec on yoke but if uneven ware replace like the picture that was earlier posted. There all perfectly flat and when you put the yoke on the plungers they all have hardly any slop I would say there all within tolerances.

since i removed the cam entirely i had to set all the lifters back up so did just as the book says started at #4 just because that's where i was on compression stroke anyhow took the valve cover off made sure both valves were closed spun the engine in direction of rotation found mark for (1-4) TC didn't go past it and if i did i would back track at least 60degrees of rotation to eliminate black lash on timing gears then return to timing mark. set micrometer to 1.733 and set the lock nut continue on threw the firing order using the (2-3) TC mark next still all were set book says spec is + or - 4 thou i got each one set to right on the money or 0.5 of a thou out well within specs.

moved all the components from #3 cylinder i.e pump cap piston plunger yoke lifter spring to #2 if the problem moves to #3 cylinder now i know for sure its something wrong most likely the yoke with #2.

yes Old magnet totally agree with you I want to solve the root of the problem before getting knee deep in tearing down this old engine no point in dropping the skid and pan to change a rod if the problem is just going to happen again to a new rod that in my mind is wasteful.

tomorrow i will most defiantly do that oil on the injector trick well i am doing a compression test.

So if the problem moves to #3 with low fuel pressure then i know its the fuel pump if it stays in #2 and compression test yields low then i know i am rebuilding part of the engine.

 

[hdsbc]

 

[hdsbc]

 

[hdsbc]

Sorry the pictures are not in order of reassembly

 

[Old Magnet]

How are you going about checking injection pressure. Do not dead head test. If you test use a pressure relief valve set at some reasonable pressure, maybe 750 psi or so or something could get busted.
What's the part number on your new replacement pump?

 

[hdsbc]

 

[hdsbc]

my plan was to loosen all the injector lines at the pump so no fuel can reach the motor, then screw a fuel line 1 cap at a time to my custom tool i made.
I drilled out the body of an old injector removed the tip cut off the end and thread it for a adaptor from my kit to be thread in the end. this will achieve my fuel pressure did it with shop air and it works. as for dead ending i don't have a pressure relive valve but if i see it climb over 750 psi quickly there is a blow off valve on the gauge to dump the pressure quick before something bad happens.

as for cylinder pressure i made a similar tool since the person i borrowed the adapter from last year is no longer available. I purchased a store bought adapter for my self as seen in the picture and its the wrong size so resourceful made my own. drilled out the old injector removed the spring and ball tapped in a threaded adaptor to the gauge works on shop air also so should do the trick.

 

[hdsbc]

there is no part # on the new pump there a little differant like the fuel tube has a O ring instead of the tapered rubber gasket and its body is little differant on the outside but it fits just fine and everything lines up nicely. keep in mind today i moved all of #2 stuff to #3 that's why is there

 

[hdsbc]

 

[epirbalex]

The

Ok so here goes for my findings. I have reassembled the machine back ready for compression and fuel pressure check but that will have wait till tomorrow weather turned for the worse little bit of a blizzard.

so i did a spring compression test on all the lifters
#1 36.5 lbs #2 38 lbs #3 37lbs #4 37 lbs so the spring is defiantly not the problem. turns out the cylinder in question has the highest rebound force anyhow and all the lifter bores were not scored and the lifters moved easily up and down no evidence of cracking. by take a picture and looking at the picture.

Lifter length from roller to top
#1 3.586 #2 3.587 #3 3.585 #4 3.585 so lifters are all practically the same could be a little human error because i had to use a caliper, micrometer wouldn't fit since the jaw was not deep enough.

Piston plunger length book says spec is 2.6575 - 2.6577
#1 2.6576 #2 2.6577 #3 2.6576 #4 26576 all within spec
brand new one
book says no spec on yoke but if uneven ware replace like the picture that was earlier posted. There all perfectly flat and when you put the yoke on the plungers they all have hardly any slop I would say there all within tolerances.

since i removed the cam entirely i had to set all the lifters back up so did just as the book says started at #4 just because that's where i was on compression stroke anyhow took the valve cover off made sure both valves were closed spun the engine in direction of rotation found mark for (1-4) TC didn't go past it and if i did i would back track at least 60degrees of rotation to eliminate black lash on timing gears then return to timing mark. set micrometer to 1.733 and set the lock nut continue on threw the firing order using the (2-3) TC mark next still all were set book says spec is + or - 4 thou i got each one set to right on the money or 0.5 of a thou out well within specs.

moved all the components from #3 cylinder i.e pump cap piston plunger yoke lifter spring to #2 if the problem moves to #3 cylinder now i know for sure its something wrong most likely the yoke with #2.

yes Old magnet totally agree with you I want to solve the root of the problem before getting knee deep in tearing down this old engine no point in dropping the skid and pan to change a rod if the problem is just going to happen again to a new rod that in my mind is wasteful.

tomorrow i will most defiantly do that oil on the injector trick well i am doing a compression test.

So if the problem moves to #3 with low fuel pressure then i know its the fuel pump if it stays in #2 and compression test yields low then i know i am rebuilding part of the engine.

You should be able to access the big ends through four plates on the side of the block without the need to drop the skid plate and pan

Ok so here goes for my findings. I have reassembled the machine back ready for compression and fuel pressure check but that will have wait till tomorrow weather turned for the worse little bit of a blizzard.

so i did a spring compression test on all the lifters
#1 36.5 lbs #2 38 lbs #3 37lbs #4 37 lbs so the spring is defiantly not the problem. turns out the cylinder in question has the highest rebound force anyhow and all the lifter bores were not scored and the lifters moved easily up and down no evidence of cracking. by take a picture and looking at the picture.

Lifter length from roller to top
#1 3.586 #2 3.587 #3 3.585 #4 3.585 so lifters are all practically the same could be a little human error because i had to use a caliper, micrometer wouldn't fit since the jaw was not deep enough.

Piston plunger length book says spec is 2.6575 - 2.6577
#1 2.6576 #2 2.6577 #3 2.6576 #4 26576 all within spec
brand new one
book says no spec on yoke but if uneven ware replace like the picture that was earlier posted. There all perfectly flat and when you put the yoke on the plungers they all have hardly any slop I would say there all within tolerances.

since i removed the cam entirely i had to set all the lifters back up so did just as the book says started at #4 just because that's where i was on compression stroke anyhow took the valve cover off made sure both valves were closed spun the engine in direction of rotation found mark for (1-4) TC didn't go past it and if i did i would back track at least 60degrees of rotation to eliminate black lash on timing gears then return to timing mark. set micrometer to 1.733 and set the lock nut continue on threw the firing order using the (2-3) TC mark next still all were set book says spec is + or - 4 thou i got each one set to right on the money or 0.5 of a thou out well within specs.

moved all the components from #3 cylinder i.e pump cap piston plunger yoke lifter spring to #2 if the problem moves to #3 cylinder now i know for sure its something wrong most likely the yoke with #2.

yes Old magnet totally agree with you I want to solve the root of the problem before getting knee deep in tearing down this old engine no point in dropping the skid and pan to change a rod if the problem is just going to happen again to a new rod that in my mind is wasteful.

tomorrow i will most defiantly do that oil on the injector trick well i am doing a compression test.

So if the problem moves to #3 with low fuel pressure then i know its the fuel pump if it stays in #2 and compression test yields low then i know i am rebuilding part of the engine.

 

[Old Magnet]

I ask on the pump because there are at least for pumps available, all with 10mm diameter plungers but various rates of scroll to deliver a certain amount of fuel at specific rack settings. They are not all the same.

 

[hdsbc]

hum interesting very interesting. did not know this and was not a question that the part sender asked last year. but I if i have the wrong flow rate piston and cup then i should have a new problem on #3 now since its all been moved to that cylinder I will defiantly keep and eye on that tomorrow during the tests. so I am assuming to change the flow rate the helix grove is cut on a piston at a faster rise per twist or lower rise per twist to slow rate of fuel? or is the groove cut deeper to change volume of flow? is there a way it can be measured to check my new one is the same as the old ones?

 

[Old Magnet]

No specs to measure the helix that I know of and probably to close to eyeball. Difference would have to be checked on a pump and injector test apparatus. So many strokes delivers a specific quantity of fuel at specified speed is how they are measured.
Do not mix plungers and barrels, they are a matched set fit.

 

[Puffie40]

Im quite impressed on how methodical you are in your troubleshooting.

 

[hdsbc]

Thank you puffie40 doing my best to get it running again. as for values of pressure going to have to wait an hour or so found a new problem with the starter bad ground was causing only 12v at the starter instead of 24V and drained the one battery down to nothing so solved that problem with a new better ground location and a battery charger plus a 3red battery as an extra amperage battery to keep that big engine a turning. probably going to take all day to get the the values since the starter can only run for so long before she runs out of juice.

thanks for the tip to remove the rod without the pan disassembly route that probably would save an easy 8 hours and a gasket by the time you get the skid down and rigged up on jacks to go back up.

 

[hdsbc]