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CASE DH4 Water Pump Help

toolbocks

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Bought a Case DH4 Trencher at an auction, in good shape except the radiator had a hole so the cooling system had been dry - water pump seized.

I can't seen to find a replacement water pump. Case parts dealer says the engine parts for the 1.8L are no longer listed/serviced. I can't cross-reference it to anybody elses number. Does anyone have experience with hard-to-get water pumps, either to get one or have mine rebuilt?

Thanks!
Toolbocks
 

Goose

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
362
Location
Kansas
The part number for the water pump is H659482, gasket H411058. Have your Case dealer run these numbers. If they cant get it you might have to go to an Astech dealer as they now own the Case trencher line.
 

Willis Bushogin

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
855
Location
NC
Occupation
owner
water pump

Bought a Case DH4 Trencher at an auction, in good shape except the radiator had a hole so the cooling system had been dry - water pump seized.

I can't seen to find a replacement water pump. Case parts dealer says the engine parts for the 1.8L are no longer listed/serviced. I can't cross-reference it to anybody elses number. Does anyone have experience with hard-to-get water pumps, either to get one or have mine rebuilt?

Thanks!
Toolbocks
If all else fails, call Jimmy 252-638-6036, he just helped me with a water pump, for a Cat engine, he saved me $400
 

toolbocks

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Hydraulic Fluid

Who can tell me what hydraulic fluid this thing takes? I dumped some AW32 in it to get it on the trailer, but I know it should have something better.

Thanks
 

Broken Again

Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
5
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Fire Fighter
Not sure if you got it go'in yet but here is some info I got:

I had a guy in Vegas point me to an MG water pump for a 1980 MG MGB. I bought it locally but below is the link to the part. You will have to cut off the long ear with a mounting hole because it will prevent you from being able to draw it up tight to the block. This baby is $50 bucks and mine is working fine.
http://www.drivewire.com/products/mg-mgb/water-pump/6508/

The hydraulic oil is ATF Type F.

Sorry for the late response but I found your post when looking for info on my unit. I think the Pump Gear Box went on mine today. If you've ever done this job any tips will be greatly appreciated.
 

toolbocks

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Not sure if you got it go'in yet but here is some info I got:

I had a guy in Vegas point me to an MG water pump for a 1980 MG MGB. I bought it locally but below is the link to the part. You will have to cut off the long ear with a mounting hole because it will prevent you from being able to draw it up tight to the block. This baby is $50 bucks and mine is working fine.
http://www.drivewire.com/products/mg-mgb/water-pump/6508/

The hydraulic oil is ATF Type F.

Sorry for the late response but I found your post when looking for info on my unit. I think the Pump Gear Box went on mine today. If you've ever done this job any tips will be greatly appreciated.


Well that's a neat thing, who'd thought it shares parts with an MG. I got mine rebuilt by H2OPUMPMAN (you can find him on ebay) for $70 and it seems to be fine. Mine was a real rustball, and he did a good job with it.

Thanks for the info on the hydro fluid. I had better get that AW32 out. I'd never believed it would use ATF if I hadn't noticed it bleeding "red", which I thought was odd. I have not dealt with the pump gear box before, I just picked this thing up - sorry I'm not more help. You've been much more helpful to me than I will be to you.
 

74inchShovel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
164
Location
Washington
On the pump gear box, I had one apart 15 years ago, It is just a right angle drive, 2 shafts, shims for the bearing preload. They are not to bad. Since you have to pull 4 pumps off of it to get to it, try to minimize the amount of hoses you remove. The gear pumps (small ones) should come off just fine without pulling hoses. Parts could be tough.

Toolbocks, I'm pretty sure your machine has a Leyland in it, as they went to a Mitsubishi on the DH4 B. Keep a close eye on water temp, any blowby in coolant, this motor had some problems with heads and gaskets. Check out Ballentine for any teeth, chain, rollers for the trenching chain. 1/2 dealer price, great quality. Good luck.
 

toolbocks

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Yep, it's a Leyland. I put only a 160 degree thermostat in it, and a new radiator & hoses. It's got no excuse but to run cool. So far, it stays right at 150.

Going back to the fluid, why type F I wonder? This fluid had friction enhancers for the clutch packs Ford used, but there's no clutch packs in this thing, right? Type F is getting hard to find, especially in anything but a quart bottle. I wonder if Dexron would fit the bill just as well?
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,467
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Not sure if you got it go'in yet but here is some info I got:

I had a guy in Vegas point me to an MG water pump for a 1980 MG MGB. I bought it locally but below is the link to the part. You will have to cut off the long ear with a mounting hole because it will prevent you from being able to draw it up tight to the block. This baby is $50 bucks and mine is working fine.
Wow, I wouldn't have thunk of that, cool! Even though I used to own a '67 Austin Healy Sprite (same thing as an MG Midget) that was made by British Leyland, I would have never thought that a water pump off of one would work on a Leyland diesel.
 

Broken Again

Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
5
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Fire Fighter
Hey, need a little help with my machine. I tore the gearbox out and found the bearings shot. Replaced them, put her back together and now the trencher will not operate. The machine drives fine, the backhoe and backfill blade operates but the trencher, nothing. Obviously from the cable control the pump on the right side of the gear box is the one in question, I don't think there is any way I got the hoses mixed up as this is not enough slack on any of them. What else does this pump operate?? Based on the cable controls the left pump drives the machine. I'm really not sure how the whole system flows, there are two filters on the fluid tank but when I take the hoses off nothing is pumping out of them or the hoses.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am baffled.
 

74inchShovel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
164
Location
Washington
The hydraulics on that machine are a closed loop hydrostat- fancy word for saying they hate air inside. Did you try to bleed the hoses on reassembly? Make sure cable is pulling on the pump, make sure the pump is in fact spinning, if hoses were mixed, would change motor rotation, should still work, just backwards, not so on the small gear pump that bolts to trencher pump, those hoses cant be switched, to bleed fill the hoses as full as you can get them, then I would crack hoses at motor, on both sides, then move trencher drive control back and forward, maybe have a buddy do it so you can check for fluid, which is ATF type F, if memory serves, all that pump operates is trencher drive, the two gear pumps are a little more complicated, the two filters filter fluid going to charge pumps on the 2 piston pumps, good luck
 

Broken Again

Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
5
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Fire Fighter
74,

I bled the lines on both sides of the trencher motor, and got it start moving but not very good, it barely turns in the trench direction and not in the plow direction at all. The cable is pulling the lever on the pump and the pump is spinning. It acts like it's not getting a steady supply of oil as it sounds like it's cavitating (coming from a fire truck operator) and it sporatically drags the engine down. The pump on the right side of the gearbox gets hot compared to the left side pump. I let it sit over night and tried again yesterday morning and it acted like it was going to "trench" fine (more speed and steady) still no reverse (plow) then after running for about 10 minutes it started acting up and bogging down again and the pump got hot. You referenced 2 piston pumps, does one of these only flow to the trencher pump or if this was the problem would something else not work??

When I did this work originally I had a hard time finding enough type "F" trans fluid so I contacted Case and they said I could use their Ultra-tran or similar, they suggested the premium brand that NAPA sells and that's what I used. Could this be the problem?? Also I have a very small fluid leak where the little pump on the outside mounts on the trencher pump. There is a rubber "O"-ring between the two, could this be letting air in the system and causing the problem?? Also thinking maybe some dirt has gotten in the pump, is there a way to clean or blow this out or is there any adjustments on the pump or relief valves that may be stuck?? It ran just fine prior to the bearings going out of the gear box. I was in the middle of trenching and thing just quit operating. The engine ran but nothing worked, I drug it out of the trench and to the garage, tore everything apart and found the bearings wiped. Could this have damaged the pump but still allow the outer pump to work??

Sorry for all the questions but I'm at a loss and finding someone who knows anything about this thing is not easy.

Thanks,
 

74inchShovel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
164
Location
Washington
One piston pump only goes to the trencher, the other does the ground drive. I think the fluid is ok for now. Dont worry about the O ring between pumps, not the prob. Dirt could have very easily got into the pump, the only way to clean is to dis-assemble. My first thought is are you sure you diagnosed the problem right the first time? If the bearings were shot to the point the machine would not trench, then there would be not hydraulic function at all, as all 4 pumps drive off the same shaft. ( 2 gear, 2 piston) I am not positive on this, ( been 20 years) but the I think the relief valves are on the motors, the motors are the same ( trencher, ground drive) swap the sets? Take a good look and make sure. The fact you have motion in one direction and not the other makes me think relief. One bad habbit this machine has is the cheesy 1/8 (?) roll pin that holds the arm to the shaft on the piston pump will shear, or break to the point it only allows minumal motion to the pump arm. Make sure all motion given by cable goes to the pump shaft, and is not lost between shaft and arm. Bearings going out in gearbox could have damaged pump, would have shown up on nose bearing of pump first. Did you have any hydraulic function after trencher drive quit? If so, gear box not the main problem here, though I have no doubt it was bad. Did it still turn? Gears inside ok? I know your pain, I spent 2 years working on a pair of DH 4's, and 2 DH-5's. The motors on the 4's were a total nightmare, so be very glad we are not having that discussion.
 

Broken Again

Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
5
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Fire Fighter
When the bearings went the machine would do nothing except for the engine ran. it would not move or turn, the backhoe, backfill blade, and trencher did not function. I had to remove the lines from the trencher boom lift arm and use a backhoe to raise the trencher boom out of the hole, chained it up and drug the whole machine out of trench to the shop. When I engage the trencher level the cable is moving the arm under the pump in either direction and the shaft coming out of the top of the pump is turning also but not sure about the guts inside as I did not attempt to tear the pump apart. When it broke it did snap the shear pins on both outside pumps that lock the small gears on the shaft. I replaced them and both the little pumps seem to be working fine and are obviously driven by the hoizontal shaft coming out of the pump so I know that is spinning okay. The gears in the gear box were a little beat up but I took a file to them and they seem fine as the machine drivers just fine. You're right about the engine, I got lucky on the water pump deal a few months ago.

I don't mess with sites very often, unless broken down again (hence the screen name) so I'm not sure if I can send a personnal message or not but I'd love to get your number if possible as it would save a lot of typing. Let me know how that works.

Thanks again,
 

lau lan

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Jul 15, 2014
Messages
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USA
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Engineer
CASE Construction North America Net 06/2010 and 03/2012
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Dirty Offio

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
1
Location
United States
I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to add something for anyone else who has a question and or problem with TYPE F atf. The reason some outfits specify Type F, is that it is the same as MIL-H-5606 hydraulic fluid. So, if you need a 5 gallon jug of it to fill your machine, look it up. It is also known (military changed its nomenclature again) as MIL-PRF-5606H. It is used in aircraft, so it is expensive, but any port in a storm. Type F is the same stuff, but automotive grade (lower quality standards) vs. aircraft grade.

Cheers!

RC
 
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