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CASE Dancing Diggers in England!!

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Nick Drew, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Lashlander

    Lashlander Senior Member

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    That guy is riding that four wheeler without a helmet:D

    Nice post Wulf! I never really looked at it that way, I've seen the JCB dancing diggers at Con Expo a few times and like Steve have a hard time seeing the point of it all. I will say they are talented operators though. I think a few of them were women.
     
  2. tone_rmz

    tone_rmz Member

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    Hi i drive one of these machines in the show and i am very disapointed to think that you lot think we are cowboys and not experienced in what we do all these machines are serviced to the highest standard and fitted with check valves, we do not intend to put anyones life in danger and would not do it if we were!!!! and by the way its not law to wear a helmet to ride a quad "atv" in the uk.:pointhead
     
  3. trex2

    trex2 Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like like those Case backhoes have the New Holland/JCB type of extendahoe, unlike the extendahoe style for Case in the U.S.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  4. DigDug

    DigDug Senior Member

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    I wish my 580 had those taller front tires. :drinkup
     
  5. Orchard Ex

    Orchard Ex Super Moderator

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    I have yet to read where anyone said that you were "cowboys" or "inexperienced" or that the machines were not serviced well. Actually, what I have read was complimenting the operators on knowing their machines and operating them to the fullest of their capability. I also read in a certain post here that the machines were "standard working machines". I didn't know that stock machines came fitted with check valves. Now, knowing that check valves are fitted, riding a quad under the hoe's isn't as dangerous as it originally seemed. So might I respectfully suggest that instead of getting your feelings hurt and getting all defensive, you calmly give us the full background and the benefit of the doubt.
    And even though wearing a helmet may not be "the law", it's still some of that good "common sense" that Nick spoke of. So when I see pictures of somebody riding without one, I figure they might be dumb enough to ride under a backhoe without safety valves installed. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  6. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    I was thinking this same thing all afternoon after I had made my post. But.....here in the states we have a show called "World's Most Amazing Videos" where they show video tape of accidents of all types. There are often accounts of just this type of exhibition gone terribly wrong at County fairs or what have you. This show has a rule that no one can be killed in the video, but people are often seriously injured. You can bet there's film out there too where people actually are killed.

    Neither I nor skata were critical of anyone, and simply pointed out that the machine could suffer mechanical damage operating at such a severe angle. I also pointed out a safety concern that still bothers me. I know of two cases locally where people have been killed while working under a raised boom when the hydraulics failed. If this concern has been addressed by special equipment, then I guess it's safe, but I think it sends the wrong message to the public who doesn't know better.

    This forum is all about discussion, the good, bad and the evil. We can cover it all in a mature manner if we don't try to read between the lines. Opinions will differ again and again, there's no need to get excited or take things personally.
     
  7. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    I'm going to have to align myself with Wulf and the fellows from across the pond, with some qualification...

    As was pointed out, there is an endless variety of things done for our entertainment, and some of those things involve machinery--planes, cars, motorcycles, etc. I think if you're going to take issue with any of those exhibitions, then you should probably take issue with all of them.

    Some of that machinery is specially designed and built for the work it does. Race cars and civilian aerobatic aircraft come readily to mind. Some machinery has high enough performance, and is robust enough to put on a pretty good show just as it comes from the factory. Superb maintenance is necessary however. The military aerobatic teams are good examples of that.

    Apparently, the Case backhoes the Dancing Diggers use are another example of the latter. Perhaps they've been modified somewhat, but I'm sure they're closer to factory original models than NASCAR cars are to street legal automobiles. I think it's just a fact that those of us priveleged to operate heavy equipment get to play with some very capable toys.

    At the same time, there are plenty of fighter pilots in the Air Force, and only a very few ever get to perform as Thunderbirds. Those that do are talented, experienced, and practice, practice, practice. I'm sure the same can be said of the operators peforming in those pictures.

    Now, for the qualification....

    We have traffic safety beaten into us too, but we love to see them good ol' boys tearing up the track every weekend. And occasionally, one of them gets hurt. And occasionally, some kid thinks he can do the same thing out on that winding road outside of town, and he gets hurt too. And the Blue Angels and the Snowbirds have each lost a pilot this year. And every now and then, some private pilot in a Cessna will end up a smoking hole in the ground because he tried to do something neither he nor the aircraft were capable of.

    Doing things that are outside the envelope of normal operation is risky.

    There exists something called personal responsibility. The kid on the back road, and the Cessna pilot, have only themselves to blame. Any of us who would do some of those things with a backhoe, I'd consider irresponsible and foolish. And that goes double for anyone who'd let another person get beneath our upraised machine. We may be professional operators, but we're not professional showmen.

    Granted, the professionals are taking "calculated risks", and being professionals--professional showmen, not simply professional pilots or drivers or operators--they should have the risks very carefully calculated, and kept within acceptable limits. But to say that there is no danger is misleading.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  8. jimmyjack

    jimmyjack Senior Member

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  9. jazak

    jazak Senior Member

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    I think I see a New Holland to the far right. ;)
     
  10. Nick Drew

    Nick Drew Resigned

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    After last weeks ripping of on here by the PC brigade the lads decided to wear helmuts this week.:beatsme

    We are ready for another barrage of negative comments:p :p
     

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  11. MKTEF

    MKTEF Senior Member

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    Hey Nick!
    Whats the point with the glas on the last picture?
    Did he touch it or crush it?

    And don't bother with the negative comments, i think your pictures is nice and shows the limits of the machinery.:)
    Let the stupid and not proffesional guys destroy their equipment, while we watch the pro's test the limmits for us.:D
     
  12. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    The operator's manual specifies that the machine must be operated from the operator's seat only. :p

    And, how can those guys have their seatbelts fastend when they're standing up?:confused:

    (Hey, you said you were ready...):cool2

    :D
     
  13. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    case copied the jcb dancing diggers.
    jcb can drive a backhoe under the other backhoes while they're elevated, and not just a fourwheeler.:rolleyes:
     

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  14. Lashlander

    Lashlander Senior Member

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    Now Nick, do you honestly believe my statement was a ripping? You know the one with the big grin behind it.
    Anyway, If them boys got helmets on my work here is done!:cool2
     
  15. Nick Drew

    Nick Drew Resigned

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    Hej MKTEF,

    That last picture shows highly experienced operator Ray Gilbert crushing an egg which was sat in an eggcup with the outrigger.

    I am glad you liked and appreciated what thes guys can do with their machines.


    Digger, I think we just have to accept that you and me do not see eye to eye about anything.

    Its' a good thing we won't ever end up working on the same site!! ....I reckon we would not even last 5 minutes ....You are too much by the rule book for my liking:(

    But having said that you are probably a great bloke outside of work....Some guys are like that:pointhead
     
  16. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    Nick, you need to learn to take me every bit as seriously as I take myself--which is not at all. :) Except of course when I mean to be taken seriously.:cool2

    (I'm sure that clears everything up.) :)
     
  17. Nick Drew

    Nick Drew Resigned

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    Nah I don't get it !!!:beatsme
     
  18. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    I know. :exactly :(
     
  19. tone_rmz

    tone_rmz Member

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    don't no why we bother!

    so what are you trying to prove skata? the jcb's do drive underneath with another machine and not a quad but i fink u'll find are machines wont fit!!! and yes they do look very well in time but having seen them in action they certainly do not push there machines to there limits!!!! in fact i've personally seen 2 people try push a jcb to do what we do in the last picture with the egg, and tipped them completely over! so you no that if you ever see a jcb going over as far as we do you will no that it wont be a standard working machine and will probably have "unforseen ballest"! where as are machines are totally standard straight from work. usually the same day. with maybe the chance to wash it if your lucky! and nick will vouch for that. the case is a far superior machine to the jcb in every aspect!
    To be honest nick i think these photo's you kindly took and posted on here are wasted on certain people on here! and is a waste of time posting anymore!
    i do appologise to the majority of the people on here who do appreciate the photos this is not directed at you.:Banghead :bash
     
  20. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    This thread isn't working quite right. I'm going to take it apart and try to figure out why.

    Nick proudly posts pictures of the team.
    Okay, nothing wrong there.

    biggixxerjim expresses shock, says he wouldn't try some of those positions and questions the stress put on the machine. Asks a rhetorical question about insurance.
    Since they must be insured, that one's really not pertinant. Most of us wouldn't try any of those positions either. Shocked reaction is consistent with that. Valid question about the stabilizer though.

    farm_boy comments on the origin of the machines.
    Nothing to be concerned about there.

    Dozerboy comments that doing those moves in sync would be difficult.
    Can't argue with that. He didn't really show any appreciation for the moves themselves though. Early signs that the thread is not operating as the Original Poster expected...

    greywynd, as a professional operator, wonders if there's any unseen ballast involved.
    Not an unreasonable question if you've operated machines well within the limits of their center of gravity.

    greywynd continues, and becomes the first to question the importance of the "Now kids, don't try this at home" factor.
    It's unfortunate, but it's an undeniable fact of life that people will stupidly try to imitate things that are well beyond thier abilities. This could lead to further discussion

    Grader4me wonders whether there were any accidents in learnig how to do the stunts and comments that there's no room for error.
    Reasonable conclusion; a left-handed complimnet actually, following another valid question.

    Blademan sends his compliments and thanks for the pictures.
    Good, good....

    tone_rmz joins the thread, and assures us there is no unseen ballast; these are everyday working machines. And he assures us that he and the other operators are highly experienced.
    The question of ballast is answered. Good. No enlightenment on the other valid questions though, and no elaboration on how the operators came to be able to competently do things the rest of us don't do.

    Grader4me enthusiastically welcomes tone rmz, and points out that he'd be the most qualified to answer questions on the subject.
    Good point. It's nice to have one of the experts to share the details with those of us who only operate well within the limits, but would love to know more about how the experience of operating close to the limits.

    CB welcomes the new member.
    He welcomes everybody. Nothing out of the ordinary there. He requests more pictures.

    Nick happiliy obliges with more pictures, and praises the team.
    Good.

    RonG expresses wild admiration.
    Good.

    Nick responds, graciuosly.
    Good

    skata asks about oil starvation.
    Valid question, from one professional operator to another.

    Steve echos that concern, and adds concern about hydraulics starving for fluid.
    More valid qustions, from one professional operator to another.

    Steve continues, echoing the earlier concern about how the crowd might interpert actions that professional training and government regulations are contrary to.
    greywynd's concerns have not yet been addressed. They are repeated.

    Nick reacts.
    Not graciously

    Steve apologizes. Elaborates on his safety concerns, and expresses that he's simply voicing his opinion.
    Sounds reasonable to me.

    Ross compliments Nick's pictures.
    Good.

    Wulf adds another compliment, comments on the "healthy debate", and comments on the high standards of safety required of british operators. He brings up the aspect of "showmanship" and that this is a performance, similar to other types of entertainment.
    Good, and a valid point.

    Nick praises Wulf's common sense, and cites the need to "defend" his friends.
    Indication that what some consider valid questions, some others consider "attacks".

    Lashlander, with a BIG grin smiley, comments on the lack of helmet on the ATV rider. he continues, to agree with Wulf on the showmanship aspect, but does not praise the concept of staging such a show in the first place.
    One man's opinions, reasonably expressed.

    Tone rmz replies:

    First use of the term "cowboys" and first suggestion that the operators are not experienced. Apparently Lashlander's big smiley on the helmet comment fails to get through as well.

    trex2 and DigDug make comments on the machines.

    OrchardEx attempts to clarify everybody's positions, and "respectfully suggests" that calm should prevail, and further details and information about the performers and the machines would be beneficial toward that end.
    Good. Very good.

    Steve shares the basis of his safety concerns, and reiterates them. On trhe subject of this discussion, he goes on to add:
    That should stand on its own, without further comment from me.

    Long winded, Digger adds his 2 cents, trying to give equal validity to both sides of the discussuion.
    Who cares what he thinks?:rolleyes:

    jimmyjack and jazack add topical comments.

    Nick characterizes the foregoing as a "ripping by the PC brigade", but asserts that he is ready for "another barrage of negative comments". He adds smileys.
    I've lost count of the positives vs the negatives, vs the valid questions.:confused: Anybody wanna count?

    MKTEF adds compliments, and a question about the performance.
    Good.

    Digger, always eager to please, finds a negative comment to make. He notes that Nick said he was ready, and adds a smiley, or two.
    Digger should have learned something by this point. Obviously he's a little slow on the uptake...

    skata, possibly following Digger's lead, makes light of the Case team, vs the JCB team.
    Never follow Digger's lead. bad bad bad...

    Nick replies to MKTEF, and acknowleges that Digger might be ok, outside of work.
    Thanks, Nick. I try real hard to be ok everywhere. I'm glad to know you see I'm making progress. ;)

    Digger and Nick subsequently come to an understanding that for Nick, there's no understanding Digger.

    tone rmz rejoins the discussion, his third post on the forum, in total. Rather than answer any of the questions or concerns voiced earlier, he posts a reply that is less than gracious (in Digger's opinion only--your mileage may vary), and expresses that any posting of pictures of his group's performance here may be a waste of time.

    In Digger's opinion only, the individual most qualified to answer all questions on the subject, the easy ones as well as the hard ones, has chosen to avoid doing so. That's a shame, cause we really are a reasonable bunch of people, and we do usually manage to keep our exchanges civil, even cordial. Even when our opinions differ. What constitutes a greater waste of time? Posting pictures that are not met with universal, unqualified praise, or asking reasonable and valid questions, one professional to another, and having those questions largly ignored or interpreted as attacks?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007