Case 855D & 855E Transmission Differences

[alrman]

Many people who want to purchase either of these two models, often ask me "what are the differences between them?"
Well I just rebuilt one of each, back to back, this is rare, so I thought I would take a few pics of the transmission internals.
From the outside of the machines, one wonders, cause they look pretty similar - but the differences are many when the internals are looked at.
So for those of you who may be interested - I'm happy to answer any questions.

First is looking in through where the final drives are fitted

this is 855D - drums are cast & larger than E



this is 855E - notice drums for clutch packs are smaller & pressed steel - so plates are smaller



855D With front cover off - these have steel oil control rings



855E - these have teflon oil control rings on shafts - testing & compression tools shown

 

[alrman]

Front of transmissions

855D - brakes are wet, with slave cyls & actuators. Notice removeable end caps for hi/low range shafts




855E - Power brakes - no end caps for hi/low - built in to front cover

 

[Dickjr.]

I know the E steers a lot easier than the D. A long day on the D and your legs will be a little sore. My question , will the E last as well as the D? Which is cheaper for rebuild?

 

[alrman]

In theory, an E will be in for repairs before a D. Would depend on service intervals & operator use/abuse. Friction plates have smaller teeth & some of those were completely stripped out in this one. The teflon oil control rings worry me - the ones in this particular machine were still fairly sound, but I have had trouble on some machines with them only lasting 1000 - 2000hrs.
As to repair cost they are similar - some items are very expensive - eg.crownwheel & pinions, final drive bull gears, 2 speed shafts - so I guess it depends on what you are opening them up for.
Most E's failed under warranty, the pressed steel drums would spread & spit out the clutch pack retaining rings. The ones pictured above have been modified with machined metal bands being welded to them.

 

[viking1]

In theory, an E will be in for repairs before a D. Would depend on service intervals & operator use/abuse. Friction plates have smaller teeth & some of those were completely stripped out in this one. The teflon oil control rings worry me - the ones in this particular machine were still fairly sound, but I have had trouble on some machines with them only lasting 1000 - 2000hrs.
As to repair cost they are similar - some items are very expensive - eg.crownwheel & pinions, final drive bull gears, 2 speed shafts - so I guess it depends on what you are opening them up for.
Most E's failed under warranty, the pressed steel drums would spread & spit out the clutch pack retaining rings. The ones pictured above have been modified with machined metal bands being welded to them.

Hi alrman, just found this old thread and have a question for you. My trans just stopped working completely in my 855D when I tried shifting from low to high range. I can hear what sounds like a gear rattling around trying to engage whenever I lift up the front of the machine with my bucket, so I'm assuming a gear came free in there somehow. From your pictures above, it looks like I could get the front cover off the trans while its still in the machine by pulling the brakes etc off, but the service manual is telling me I need to pull apart the entire back end and pull the trans. Any info on that? Thx a bunch....

 

[Dickjr.]

If it has the lever by your left foot for high/low sometimes they will get in between. I had one tractor that you had to shut off to switch from high to low etc. And you had to lift up on the stick pretty hard to get it to shift.

 

[viking1]

If it has the lever by your left foot for high/low sometimes they will get in between. I had one tractor that you had to shut off to switch from high to low etc. And you had to lift up on the stick pretty hard to get it to shift.

Hey ****;

Yes lever is by left foot, and I have tried shifting it with the engine stopped; doesn't seem to make a difference. Did you ever end up rebuilding the trans like alrman (or fixing the issue)?

 

[Dickjr.]

I could always get it in gear by killing the engine or switching it while the engine is shutting down.

 

[alrman]

viking1 - if your transmission pressures are good, & the driveshaft is spinning without any machine movement at all, most likely you have a 2 speed problem.
Drain the oil see what you find - pull the suction screen & let us know what you see...
You can't remove the front cover from the machine with it in chassis as the shafts will fall out.
I have seen it done though, with the machine standing in an almost vertical position & chocked in place with lots of timber - not for me though :spaz
I can't recall if there is enough room for the 2 speed housing to be removed in chassis......according to my last sentence it could be possible.
Regardless, it would be a very uncomfortable job to do in chassis - personally I would remove the transmission.

 

[viking1]

viking1 - if your transmission pressures are good, & the driveshaft is spinning without any machine movement at all, most likely you have a 2 speed problem.
Drain the oil see what you find - pull the suction screen & let us know what you see...
You can't remove the front cover from the machine with it in chassis as the shafts will fall out.
I have seen it done though, with the machine standing in an almost vertical position & chocked in place with lots of timber - not for me though :spaz
I can't recall if there is enough room for the 2 speed housing to be removed in chassis......according to my last sentence it could be possible.
Regardless, it would be a very uncomfortable job to do in chassis - personally I would remove the transmission.

Thx alrman;

It is most definitely a problem w the 2 speed; I'm thinking maybe a pin that holds a gear on a shaft sheared? Trans pressures are good (near new charge pump); I'll pull the suction screen and inspect tomorrow. I am trying to avoid having to split the tracks and pull the sprockets/finals, as I just did that on the big beast pictured below (a John Deere 855 Crawler Loader I am restoring; a major pain in the arse).

 

[alrman]

Thx alrman;

It is most definitely a problem w the 2 speed; I'm thinking maybe a pin that holds a gear on a shaft sheared?

Sorry, the gears are splined & wont shear...... I was thinking missing teeth, hence the suggestion to drain oil & inspect screen....
or maybe a selector fork issue??

 

[viking1]

Sorry, the gears are splined & wont shear...... I was thinking missing teeth, hence the suggestion to drain oil & inspect screen....
or maybe a selector fork issue??

I had upgraded my 855D with a 6T590 a year or so (originally a naturally-aspirated model), and had put an entirely new undercarriage on it 6 months ago https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...-are-very-noisy-need-some-advice-please/page7 . Guess this figures, since the only things I hadn't gone through yet were the trans and the final drives.....

I'm doubting missing teeth, because I didn't hear/feel anything while shifting the speed control. I'm assuming a shift fork to be the most likely culprit. How accessible are the forks through the front if I had the right angle?

 

[alrman]

I'm doubting missing teeth, because I didn't hear/feel anything while shifting the speed control. I'm assuming a shift fork to be the most likely culprit. How accessible are the forks through the front if I had the right angle?

To remove the shift fork you need to remove the 2 speed housing, to remove the 2 speed housing you need to remove both brake housings.
If the front cover is not being removed, all this SHOULD be possible, with the machine sitting level.

**NB - there are shim packs for each pinion shaft - don't lose shims or mix LH & RH - these control critical pinion depth settings.

There is a detent ball & spring for the selector rail located under the 2 speed housing - remove them & try to move the selector & feel if any thing is happening.

 

[viking1]

To remove the shift fork you need to remove the 2 speed housing, to remove the 2 speed housing you need to remove both brake housings.
If the front cover is not being removed, all this SHOULD be possible, with the machine sitting level.

**NB - there are shim packs for each pinion shaft - don't lose shims or mix LH & RH - these control critical pinion depth settings.

There is a detent ball & spring for the selector rail located under the 2 speed housing - remove them & try to move the selector & feel if any thing is happening.

Really appreciate the info Sir. We will lift the front end a few degrees just to be safe. I had a leaking track brake anyway, so I guess now is as good a time as any to fix that too....

 

[digger doug]

Alrman,
thank you for taking the time to post and the pictures are good too.

Looked at a 850 "e", and right behind it sat an 850 "h".

Looking at the final drives, and the operators levers, I see no difference.
Maybe you could explain some more models past the "e" please ?

 

[alrman]

Alrman,
Looking at the final drives, and the operators levers, I see no difference.
Maybe you could explain some more models past the "e" please ?

The E & H were very similar machines. The transmissions are much the same, except that the H has a large rear cover.
This may assist in doing some "in field" repairs, but I haven't had the pleasure of rebuilding an 850H yet.
:drinkup

 

[Josh Carey]

Many people who want to purchase either of these two models, often ask me "what are the differences between them?"
Well I just rebuilt one of each, back to back, this is rare, so I thought I would take a few pics of the transmission internals.
From the outside of the machines, one wonders, cause they look pretty similar - but the differences are many when the internals are looked at.
So for those of you who may be interested - I'm happy to answer any questions.

First is looking in through where the final drives are fitted

this is 855D - drums are cast & larger than E

View attachment 83414

this is 855E - notice drums for clutch packs are smaller & pressed steel - so plates are smaller

View attachment 83413

855D With front cover off - these have steel oil control rings

View attachment 83416

855E - these have teflon oil control rings on shafts - testing & compression tools shown

View attachment 83415

Hello alrman I have read you're post on steering case dozers and you're post on the side by side comparison of 850d and 850e transmission clutch packs. I have found a mint 850e from a friend who has passed away. this dozer has 3100 original hours with brand new chains all new bottom rollers and new idlers and pads. Dozer also just had a big hyster winch put on. This thing is mint! My question is should I be worried about this newer transmission design with the lighter clutch baskets and Teflon oil control rings? I have access to a clean 650G that is proven to me and just don't want to make a mistake! I appreciate your wisdom and experience. Thank You Josh Carey

 

[alrman]

Welcome to HEF @Josh Carey
Mate, buying any used machinery involves some type of risk.
I've seen transmissions fail while still under warranty & I've seen them go on for 20k hrs!
If the E looks As good as what you say & you have dealer support in your area - might be worth the gamble.
I can't really speak much for or against the DEERE, but you'll need to weigh up the pro's & cons regarding the two.
Near new chains & rollers is a major expense & if that is already done that's the first plus for the CASE