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Case 580se shuttle/torque converter

chrisdvorak

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Jan 17, 2014
Messages
34
Location
RI
I have a 1985 case 580se backhoe that is sluggish in fwd, rev works ok till fluid gets warm then almost no travel. I am planning on rebuilding the shuttle. the question I have is about the torque converter. I would rather not replace it if not necessary so is there any way to separately test the torque converter? I understand doing a stall test is the correct way to test the converter but if the shuttle is slipping wouldn't that give an inaccurate gauge on the condition of the converter? id hate to replace it just because as it doubles the cost of the rebuild. any input?
-thanks
 

alrman

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Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
I replace the convertor on each shuttle rebuild I do, if the owner wants a warranty.
If there is trash in them, you will never really flush it completely out.
I have them reconditioned at a specialist convertor repair shop.
Many forward drive issues are caused by the sprag in the convertor failing & not allowing enough slip to occur under load. This is what burns out the forward clutch pack.
The fact that reverse is losing drive on yours, is a little unusual. It is possible the charge pump may have some issues.
I will always carry out a stall test before removing a shuttle, & compare forward to reverse.
Be sure to engage drive a number of times during the test - particularly in reverse - as a bad convertor may test fine with one application & on the next, it will pull down the engine revs well below spec.
 

Coy Lancaster

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Arkansas
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service tech
If your going to repair your shuttle then you need to replace everything in it, including your torque converter and be sure and clean out the cooler. You'll be money ahead, BTW some of the converters have drain plugs in them that makes it easier when pulling the shuttle not as much oil making a mess.
 

Billrog

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Mar 26, 2016
Messages
722
Location
Armstrong, British Columbia
Occupation
band mill , backhoe and dump truck
I've replaced a converter and pump on a 580se because it wouldn't spin the wheels in 1st up against something but never dealt with a shuttle.
Took me 4.5 hrs. because I didn't know what I was doing but it worked well for a few more years until I upgraded. There was no drain on the T converter and no one around here to rebuild them but it wasn't overly expensive.
 

chrisdvorak

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
34
Location
RI
interesting, Billrog- how did you determine that the problem was in the pump or converter and not the forward clutch discs separating or worn?
 

Billrog

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Mar 26, 2016
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722
Location
Armstrong, British Columbia
Occupation
band mill , backhoe and dump truck
I surmised that if it were the discs it would have been more gradual. It happened While on a job no pushing power all of a sudden. I phone a Case dealer and they suggested if it doesn't spin the wheels in first up against something probably the converter. It was winter and I wanted to get back to work Mon. so I rented their shop for the day ( Sunday) and pulled it out . They suggested replacing the pump while it was apart for another $180 so I did. I've never had a disc problem with any hoe so I can't give any advice others here know a lot more than I do.
 

chrisdvorak

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
34
Location
RI
anyone have experience aligning torque converter on flexplate without without using alignment tool? or if the tool is necessary an aftermarket source?
 

RDC_580C

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Apr 3, 2017
Messages
109
Location
VA
I doubt you'll find the thing anywhere, and you can use calipers and such to measure things and get it pretty close on there, then a dial gauge to get it in spec once it's on the flywheel. I couldn't find that tool when I replaced the one in my 580C, and even asked at the local Case dealer where I was told, and I quote, "it doesn't matter". Well that don't really fly with me, let alone something that says in the manual that it MUST be aligned to no more than +/- .004", so I just measured things up, designed it and had one made up. The bigger pain I found, was getting the thing aligned to spec once it was on the flywheel, as every turn of a bolt would jack things all up. You'll be able to take out a bit of any offset you create from putting the flexplate on the TC with or without the actual alignment tool when aligning it on the flywheel.

0418171320.jpg

0418171321.jpg

0418171518.jpg
 

Billrog

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Mar 26, 2016
Messages
722
Location
Armstrong, British Columbia
Occupation
band mill , backhoe and dump truck
When I replaced mine I used a dial indicator to get it within .4000 until just reading this I had no idea there was actually a tool.
 

chrisdvorak

Active Member
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Jan 17, 2014
Messages
34
Location
RI
I am just finishing rebuilding the shuttle now and everything was going together well until I bolted the front cover on with the 4 ferry head screws, as I torqued them down to spec and compressed the springs the input shaft and tailshaft became hard to turn. I can still turn the yoke by hand but not freely anyone experience this?
 

alrman

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Hmmm..... The black fibre thrust washer that goes between the forward drum & reverse piston carrier / front cover, there are two in most kits a thick & a thin, did you put the same size back as came out during rebuild? If you used the thick one, maybe try the thin.
 

chrisdvorak

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Jan 17, 2014
Messages
34
Location
RI
thanks alrman, I was thinking about that as well when going together as the manual didn't say anything about thickness. so I used the thicker of the two which is what I removed but will try the thinner one and see if it frees up any
 

woodburner

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Nov 21, 2018
Messages
8
Location
ogden ks
I doubt you'll find the thing anywhere, and you can use calipers and such to measure things and get it pretty close on there, then a dial gauge to get it in spec once it's on the flywheel. I couldn't find that tool when I replaced the one in my 580C, and even asked at the local Case dealer where I was told, and I quote, "it doesn't matter". Well that don't really fly with me, let alone something that says in the manual that it MUST be aligned to no more than +/- .004", so I just measured things up, designed it and had one made up. The bigger pain I found, was getting the thing aligned to spec once it was on the flywheel, as every turn of a bolt would jack things all up. You'll be able to take out a bit of any offset you create from putting the flexplate on the TC with or without the actual alignment tool when aligning it on the flywheel.

View attachment 174923

View attachment 174924

View attachment 174925
 

RDC_580C

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Apr 3, 2017
Messages
109
Location
VA
If you have all of the correct parts and they go together with minimal fuss (you may need to spin the engine over via the flywheel or crank pulley bolt a little to get the TC and Charge Pump splines lined up) then it should be in there, as far as looking up in there anywhere to check, no. I did a new TC and charge pump when I had mine all apart, so l'd be pretty sure it was all good once it was back together.
 

woodburner

Member
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Nov 21, 2018
Messages
8
Location
ogden ks
thanks I am making brackets to holdshuttle on my car transmission jack stand my old tc tabs and pump were worn like tc wasn't all the way in but I don't see any adjustment engine end play ok I have had it for year s 19 95 I think do you yourself put shuttle in separate from bellhousing shep
 

RDC_580C

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Apr 3, 2017
Messages
109
Location
VA
You'll want to do the Shuttle alone so you're no fighting the weight of that bell housing, plus it has the 2 engine/shuttle mounts on it. I put the bell housing in the frame first, with it's 2 mounts loose a little loose. Then I put the engine in, bolted it to the bell housing and tightened all 3 of the motor mounts up. Then I installed the Shuttle. You could put the bell housing on the engine first and drop those all in as one, but I was doing the job alone and the less weight I had on the hoist the safer.

The end of my TC was a little chewed up as well, why I just decided to replace it and the charge pump while I had it all apart.

TC_Old_1224161745c.jpg
 
Last edited:

alrman

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QLD Australia
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Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
my old tc tabs and pump were worn like tc wasn't all the way in
@woodburner Most times when you see worn drive tangs on a torque converter, the converter has usually a bad sprag, causing excessive load on the transmission drivetrain.
So, it is a good thing you replaced it.
 
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