Case 580se replace the brake slave cylinder or wait?

[Birdseye]

As a final check before putting the floor and seat back in my 580se, I discovered an oil leak out the top of the right side brake slave cylinder. The brake and slave cylinder are working but I wonder for how long and whether I should replace the slave cylinder now that the floor is out of the way.

Any thoughts, advice ?

 

[gggraham]

Just my 2 cents, replace it before it leaks really bad. If the fluid leaks the other way and the rubber on the actuator is cracked or torn it will get onto the brakes and cause you more grief. Good time to do a quick check of things and it's not hard to replace/reseal.

 

[Birdseye]

Thanks , I needed to hear the voice of reason because the little voice inside my head was lying to me and saying:

“ ignore the leak, it’ll be fine, just like water leaks in house plumbing, they self seal with sediment after a while and if it need’s replaced, you can always do it from underneath”. !!

 

[Birdseye]

Ok so I faced my demons and pulled out the right side slave cylinder. Working on these brakes is for me, extremely difficult because there is no easy access to the fasteners and very little room for wrenches or for wrenches to move/turn. Maybe I'm not using the right tools to make loosening and removing the fasteners on the the slave cylinder easy. I'm sure the commercial repair guys have this procedure down pat but I spent 4 hours just getting that slave cylinder out. With the hard hydraulic lines on the right side, there is even less access for fingers and sight than on the left side.

For the inside bolt on the right side cylinder, from the top, I used a 1/4" socket on a 1/4" U-joint, to a 1/4" extension to an impact driver.
For the outside bolt , from the top, I used a 4" long x 1/4" sliding socket bar to loosen the bolt, then the impact to do the rest.


Ive now got things back together loose.
But before I start tightening things up and have to undo/redo I'd like to ask you to look at these steps and the order, especially the air bleeding step, should that be done 1st to allow greater access?:
1. tighten down the two slave cyl bolts the brake line nut
2. tighten the ratchet bolt on the brake arm for the proper 0.375" of freeplay
3. bleed the brakes, finish by tightening the air screw on the slave cylinder
4. attach the brake arm return spring
5. adjust the e-brake shaft connector link bolts

I know that bleeding the slave cylinder is going to be the a super pain, with limited access to the air screw and no visibility. Attaching a small wrench to open and close the screw AND a plastic hose to catch the fluid and see the bubbles may be a 2 person job.

Somewhere, someone posted that they were able to do any brake work on a Case 580se from underneath, maybe they would drop the entire brake housing first, still it seems to also be very difficult to access all the necessary fasteners from underneath. I hope I dont have to do this again !

Thanks.

 

[Birdseye]

Btw, I was able to restore the slave cylinder by polishing the bore with a length of 180 grit plumbers abrasive mesh around a Dremel bit. Oven cleaner and 1000 grit paper cleaned up the piston. A new O-ring and it’s like new, I hope… time will tell .

There is some putting on the upper face of the bore but from what I can tell the piston doesn’t go up that far or shouldn’t it the brakes are properly adjusted.

 

[Birdseye]

Today I was fixing to bleed the brakes. I cleaned off the reservoir cover and loosened the band clamps. Instead of finding clear hydraulic fluid in the brake reservoir, there was this dark sludge that must be 45 years of dust mixed with hydraulic fluid. I spooned the muck out and blew air backwards from the slave cylinder towards the reservoir to clean the gunk out.

I’m thinking I should flush the reservoir and brake lines with hydraulic fluid that I discard before the final fill up.

 

[MG84]

Today I was fixing to bleed the brakes. I cleaned off the reservoir cover and loosened the band clamps. Instead of finding clear hydraulic fluid in the brake reservoir, there was this dark sludge that must be 45 years of dust mixed with hydraulic fluid. I spooned the muck out and blew air backwards from the slave cylinder towards the reservoir to clean the gunk out.

I’m thinking I should flush the reservoir and brake lines with hydraulic fluid that I discard before the final fill up.
View attachment 281124

Definitely clean that master cyl out the best you can and flush with new fluid. As for bleeding I’d try gravity bleeding first. Top off the reservoir, open the bleeder on the slave cyl. and wait. Keep an eye on it and top off as needed. Usually only takes less than 30min if its going to work, I gravity bleed everything I can since 90% of the time I’m by myself. If that doesn’t work I use a Mityvac vacuum pump. If you get one spend the extra money for the name brand unit, its well worth it and has dozens of other uses too.

 

[Birdseye]

I’m not familiar with gravity bleeding. Do you put a clear tube on the vent screw and just wait till the bubbles stop coming up? That sounds like it should work unless there are pockets where the air can get trapped. My friend has a mighty vac, I can ask him about borrowing it. Never used one.

 

[MG84]

No clear tube needed, the fluid will be coming out at a slower rate than conventional bleeding so just watch it and close the bleeder when the bubbles stop.

 

[Birdseye]

Today I did two things:
- read the CASE 580 SE Operators manual and discovered that these models have "Self Filled Master Cylinders". Apparently hydraulic fluid from the hydraulic system fills each reservoir automatically. Well then , I may as well fill the reservoir with the same hydraulic fluid that I have in the Hydraulic system. It is NOT CASE TCH but the less expensive regular Hydraulic fluid.
- Got the MIGHTY VAC and it definitely seems to be a superior way to bleed the brakes compared to the pump and open/close method.

 

[gggraham]

Reservoirs are only self filling if the caps are help on with hose clamps. The caps are like an ABS plastic with small 1/8" or 1/4" hoses attached to them. If it just has a wire holding a metal cap they are not self filling. I can't see by the picture of the master which ones you have.

 

[Birdseye]

My 580se brake reservoir has the caps with hoses and clamps so this is definitely the “auto fill” system. I guess there is a continuous feed of hydraulic fluid from the main hydraulic system thru these hoses, caps and reservoirs. It almost seems like it would be better if the two systems were separate. Perhaps this is a safety feature, although with redundant brake cylinders and reservoirs it seems unnecessary. This explains why the brake reservoir was filled with a milky sludge, my hydraulic fluid must look similar !

I got the Mighty Vac and figured out the best combination of hoses and connectors and finally got them all perfectly air tight which is important if the vacuum is going to pull cold hydraulic fluid thru the brake line. But I found that compared to pumping the brake pedal, the MightyVac just couldn’t move the volume of cold hydraulic fluid thru the brake system as quickly. MV did what it was supposed to do but slowly. The best part of the MV was the rubber hose connectors that fit on the brake cylinder air bleeder nipple, this tight connection made it possible to collect the 1/2 quart of hydraulic fluid that I flushed thru the brake system.

 

[cmrsf1]

I have a Case 580 SK. I had the brakes replaced for 7K and they don't work. My mechanic ghosted me. Beats me, I paid him in full, he came back 1 time to bleed the brakes but couldn't get them to work and left. Told me in the beginning - no guarantees! Live and learn. I'm now trying to bleed them myself with a tool similar to the one shown, above. I am posting 2 pictures to see if anyone can tell me if I am correct in thinking that the fittings I have an arrow pointing to is where I bleed them. Just loosen the fitting, put on the tube and activate the compressor? A buddy of mine is telling me that the brakes themselves should be fine, that I am trying to bleed the lines that push the activators for the brakes. Sound right?
Here's a poor photo from my Case manual showing the air removal screw but it's hard to say if it's what I posted in the other picture
Thanks in advance!

 

[Birdseye]

The Case 580sk doesn't have an externally mounted slave cylinder like my 580se does but it has the air bleeder screw down in the same hard to reach location. If the cab floor is out, its much easier to access and work on. Consider taking the floor out especially if you have other things that need fixing under there like the e-brake etc. Otherwise there is probably a removable plug in the floor that will get you some access. It may be a 2 person job to bleed the brakes, one person to pump the brake pedal and another person to open/close the bleeder screw from underneath....I've only done it on a 580se with the floor out. Someone with actual experience on a sk will hopefully soon answer.

You can fix these systems yourself with the help of the folks here. Paying $7000 for a 'mechanic' to provide a temporary fix is a wake up call to DIY. These older machines have many systems that are worn out and need restoration (brakes, cylinders, fuel injection etc). If I had to pay a capable mechanic to fix everything on my 580se , I'd be better off getting a newer machine.